i asked toyota about 4wd high on slippery surfaces

*****THIS IS WHAT I ASKED

Customer xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/07/2007 06:49 PM
i own a 2007 tacoma trd off road. i wanted to know if it is
mechanically safe to engage 4x4H when driving in the rain or in rainy
slippery weather? can i leave it in 4x4H for long distances when
driving in rain? will it affect the transfer case in any way? i've
read that it is ok if your truck has fluid coupling between the front
and the rear. does my truck have the fluid couplings? thank you.

*****THIS IS WHAT THEY SAID

Discussion Thread
Response (Kym) 04/12/2007 11:03 AM
Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx:
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate your question on the use of 4-wheel-drive in your 2007
Tacoma.

It is mechanically safe to engage the 4-wheel-drive in the 4H mode
when driving on a slippery surface. Additionally, it is okay to use
the 4H mode for driving long distances on a slippery surface. There
will be no wear to the transfer case when using the 4H mode.

Your Tacoma does not fluid couplings.

Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters under file
#xxxxxxxxx. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to
contact us.

A wet, paved road surface is not loose enough to use 4Hi if you make _any_
turns and you could bind your driveline in such conditions which, could
result in damage to your transfer case, drive shafts, differentials or
universal joints. By "slippery surface" they mean loose surfaces in which
individual tires can spin freely thereby releaving any driveline bind. Even
dirt or gravel roads may provide sufficient traction to cause driveline
binding. The corollary is that when hydroplaning over a paved road, none of
the tires might have traction. A good rule of thumb is "if you don't think
you need 4x4, don't use 4x4."

<rmartinez30 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

*****THIS IS WHAT I ASKED

Customer xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/07/2007 06:49 PM
i own a 2007 tacoma trd off road. i wanted to know if it is
mechanically safe to engage 4x4H when driving in the rain or in rainy
slippery weather? can i leave it in 4x4H for long distances when
driving in rain? will it affect the transfer case in any way? i've
read that it is ok if your truck has fluid coupling between the front
and the rear. does my truck have the fluid couplings? thank you.

*****THIS IS WHAT THEY SAID

Discussion Thread
Response (Kym) 04/12/2007 11:03 AM
Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx:
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate your question on the use of 4-wheel-drive in your 2007
Tacoma.

It is mechanically safe to engage the 4-wheel-drive in the 4H mode
when driving on a slippery surface. Additionally, it is okay to use
the 4H mode for driving long distances on a slippery surface. There
will be no wear to the transfer case when using the 4H mode.

Your Tacoma does not fluid couplings.

Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters under file
#xxxxxxxxx. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to
contact us.

I think that depends a lot on your tires. If you have really high 'wet'
traction tires, then driving on wet roads can stress parts, especially
normal wear/worn parts like u-joints.

If you are running stock all season or summer tires, they are not known
to be super glue on wet surfaces, they compromise all surfaces, then you
might be just fine like Toyota implies.

I even run into trouble using 4x4 on some dirt surfaces because my tires
are really high traction mud treads. I will get binds and need to spin
the tires in reverse to get out of 4 low to unwind the drivetrain.

I also agree with your 'rule of thumb', if you aren't slipping around,
then 2 wheel drive behaves best.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


Ed H. wrote:

A wet, paved road surface is not loose enough to use 4Hi if you make _any_
turns and you could bind your driveline in such conditions which, could
result in damage to your transfer case, drive shafts, differentials or
universal joints. By "slippery surface" they mean loose surfaces in which
individual tires can spin freely thereby releaving any driveline bind. Even
dirt or gravel roads may provide sufficient traction to cause driveline
binding. The corollary is that when hydroplaning over a paved road, none of
the tires might have traction. A good rule of thumb is "if you don't think
you need 4x4, don't use 4x4."

rmartinez30 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1176437682.536862.249210 (AT) w1g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com...
*****THIS IS WHAT I ASKED

Customer xxxxxxxxxxxx 04/07/2007 06:49 PM
i own a 2007 tacoma trd off road. i wanted to know if it is
mechanically safe to engage 4x4H when driving in the rain or in rainy
slippery weather? can i leave it in 4x4H for long distances when
driving in rain? will it affect the transfer case in any way? i've
read that it is ok if your truck has fluid coupling between the front
and the rear. does my truck have the fluid couplings? thank you.

*****THIS IS WHAT THEY SAID

Discussion Thread
Response (Kym) 04/12/2007 11:03 AM
Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx:
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate your question on the use of 4-wheel-drive in your 2007
Tacoma.

It is mechanically safe to engage the 4-wheel-drive in the 4H mode
when driving on a slippery surface. Additionally, it is okay to use
the 4H mode for driving long distances on a slippery surface. There
will be no wear to the transfer case when using the 4H mode.

Your Tacoma does not fluid couplings.

Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters under file
#xxxxxxxxx. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to
contact us.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:52:30 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca>
wrote:

I think that depends a lot on your tires. If you have really high 'wet'
traction tires, then driving on wet roads can stress parts, especially
normal wear/worn parts like u-joints.

I disagree because it will see higher torque loads and a at a hish
speed which means more heat and wear in joints.

If you are running stock all season or summer tires, they are not known
to be super glue on wet surfaces, they compromise all surfaces, then you
might be just fine like Toyota implies.

And what science do you base this on??? BTW, "Toyota" has to temper
its responce because if it said it was not wsie and all of Detriot did
not buy into it too if would be a point of attack against them since
they are entering full size truck market. The only 4x4 system to is
DESIGNED for high speed is one with a ceneter differtial of some kind
in Tcase to prevent bind in first place. I have owned such a 4x4 for
almost 22 years now and it is far superior to any conventional 4x4 at
high speed while in 4x4 drive. Anyone who claims otherwise is speaking
from ego not experiance or reality.

I even run into trouble using 4x4 on some dirt surfaces because my tires
are really high traction mud treads. I will get binds and need to spin
the tires in reverse to get out of 4 low to unwind the drivetrain.

I love this logic of his. If concerned about relieving strain/bind on
drive line, stop place it in reverse and "spin the wheels". This guy
is on a real 4x4 ego trip let me tell you. If you do get bind you can
simply try backing up 5 or 10 feet to disengage Tcase or even run one
side of vechile in gravel or grass. This is far better and easier on
drive line than the hormone/ego based one suggested above.

I also agree with your 'rule of thumb', if you aren't slipping around,
then 2 wheel drive behaves best.

We actaully kinda agree here.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan wrote:
one with a ceneter differtial of some kind

in Tcase to prevent bind in first place. I have owned such a 4x4 for
almost 22 years now and it is far superior to any conventional 4x4 at
high speed while in 4x4 drive.

-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Gotta love someone who has never owned or driven a part time 4x4 giving
BS advise about 'how' they work....

Bud, you have proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a fool.

You 'claim' to own a full time 4x4, yet you have to stop on the highway
in snow storms to switch gears and have 'no' clue at all how tight a
'real' 4x4 can wind itself up 'or' how to drive one.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

I will get binds and need to spin

the tires in reverse to get out of 4 low to unwind the drivetrain.

HI. I originally posted the "i asked toyota...". what exactly do you
mean by getting "binds"? when and how does this happen. by the way
does this happen to newer model 4x4's?

On 14 Apr 2007 21:05:05 -0700, "flipside" <rmartinez30 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
wrote:

HI. I originally posted the "i asked toyota...". what exactly do you
mean by getting "binds"? when and how does this happen. by the way
does this happen to newer model 4x4's?

It will happen on any conventional 4x4 brand or mod4el that does not
have a center differentail in transfer case. It happens because even
though the front and rear may have same gear ratio, there is small
differences in tires diameters under load and flex and this result in
a cumlative speed differentail between front and rear axle that creats
the bind. Plus, when you make a turn, the rear axle has a shorter
rolling radius than front axle and bind builds up quickly (the sharper
the turn, the quicker it builds) Some 4x4 like Subarus have a limited
slip cupling between axles and are designed to be operated
indefinately on dry pavement in 4x4 without a problem. A conventional
4x4 drive system is not but some seem to think it is.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

"SnoMan" <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:52:30 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca
wrote:

I think that depends a lot on your tires. If you have really high 'wet'
traction tires, then driving on wet roads can stress parts, especially
normal wear/worn parts like u-joints.

I disagree because it will see higher torque loads and a at a hish
speed which means more heat and wear in joints.

Did you actually read what you claim to be disagreeing with, SnoIdiot ?

If you are running stock all season or summer tires, they are not known
to be super glue on wet surfaces, they compromise all surfaces, then you
might be just fine like Toyota implies.

And what science do you base this on??? BTW, "Toyota" has to temper
its responce because if it said it was not wsie and all of Detriot did
not buy into it too if would be a point of attack against them since
they are entering full size truck market. The only 4x4 system to is
DESIGNED for high speed is one with a ceneter differtial of some kind
in Tcase to prevent bind in first place. I have owned such a 4x4 for
almost 22 years now and it is far superior to any conventional 4x4 at
high speed while in 4x4 drive. Anyone who claims otherwise is speaking
from ego not experiance or reality.


I even run into trouble using 4x4 on some dirt surfaces because my tires
are really high traction mud treads. I will get binds and need to spin
the tires in reverse to get out of 4 low to unwind the drivetrain.

I love this logic of his. If concerned about relieving strain/bind on
drive line, stop place it in reverse and "spin the wheels".

Yes, that is a valid technique, SnoIdiot. Why is it that you claim to have
so many years of 4x4 experiance yet you are dumber than a box of rocks.


This guy

is on a real 4x4 ego trip let me tell you.

You must be talking about yourself again.


If you do get bind you can

simply try backing up 5 or 10 feet to disengage Tcase or even run one
side of vechile in gravel or grass.

And if that doesn't work what do you do next ??


This is far better and easier on

drive line than the hormone/ego based one suggested above.

Oh my !!! Spinning a tire on dirt will ruin my vehicle !!! Yep, only
from the SnoIdiot.

I also agree with your 'rule of thumb', if you aren't slipping around,
then 2 wheel drive behaves best.

We actaully kinda agree here.

-----------------
TheSnoTroll.com

flipside wrote:

I will get binds and need to spin
the tires in reverse to get out of 4 low to unwind the drivetrain.

HI. I originally posted the "i asked toyota...". what exactly do you
mean by getting "binds"? when and how does this happen. by the way
does this happen to newer model 4x4's?

The issue is with the type of 4x4, the 'part time' one you have.

This locks the front and rear axles together so when you turn, one wheel
has to scuff because the fronts take a longer circle. On dry roads,
this can break things if you have too much traction.

When I am on dirt in 4 low, which has the highest traction and torque
factor and I want to drive faster because the mud has gone or whatever,
sometimes I cannot physically move the shifter due to having too much
traction and not spinning tires when going through the thicker mud so my
front and rear driveshafts have stress between them big time.

So putting it into reverse and giving the gas a quick shot will spin the
tires extremely easy in low range which will unwind the stress between
the two driveshafts and allow the shift. If I can get one side on more
slippery stuff, great, but otherwise seeing as I usually have just spent
half the day spinning tires goosing it through bogs, a little controlled
spin on flat dry stuff sure better not hurt it. LOL!

Because of this front and rear lock, you might find it is better to use
2 wheel drive when say at a long left turn intersection in the snow. In
part time 4x4 the tires can scuff which gets them up on top of the snow
and makes it want to go straight. I shift to 2 wheel just before the
turn and back to 4x4 after. I find it is better.

Braking is also totally different in 'part time' 4x4 so you really would
have to watch this on water as well as snow and the Jeep manuals
specifically say to 'stay off the brakes' when in 'part time' 4x4, to
use the steering and gears. Folks think about not using brakes in 'part
time' 4x4 off road because it is too easy to lose control, well it is
the same on road in 'part time' 4x4. You can stop amazingly fas when
gearing down right. Takes practice!

The brakes in 'part time' 4x4 have one more gotcha too. When in 2 WD
and you hit the brakes, you just loose the steering because the front
wheels lock up. The rears have a proportioning valve to stop them from
locking too so you track straight.

When you hit the brakes in part time 4x4 though, if the fronts lock up,
'so do the rears' and you will slide sideways off the road faster than
you can blink!

I recommend everyone find an empty parking lot come first snow to try
out their 4x4 to see just what does happen. Keeping on the gas when you
start to slide can be hard to get used to.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:54:17 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca>
wrote:

So putting it into reverse and giving the gas a quick shot will spin the
tires extremely easy in low range which will unwind the stress between
the two driveshafts and allow the shift.

Again very nad advise based on ego not physics. This "practice" [lace
a lot more strain on drive line than the bind but "experts" such as
Mike figure it is SOP. If you do not care about the life spand of your
vehicle use his advise but if you plan to keep it a while, do not.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com