I just bought a 2000 Nissan Frontier. I took it on a 6 hour road trip,
and right at the beginning of the trip I had to put the truck in 4x4 Hi
to drive over a snowy and icy pass. I shifted the 4x4 lever back to 2
Hi, but didn't realize I had to reverse the vehicle to get it out of
4wd. I continued to drive the vehicle for several hundred miles with
the hubs locked, traveling around 80 MPH. Being new to a 4wd vehicle,
I wasn't able to figure out why my gas mileage was so bad until it
dawned on me that I must have still been in 4wd. The truck sounds fine
and doesn't appear to have any ill-effects, but should I take the
vehicle in to be serviced? What could happen by driving in such a
manner? Any info would be very helpful-I'm now worried about the
health of my new truck.

On 20 Nov 2006 18:39:57 -0800, evan_roy (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote:

It is no big deal. The worst that can happen is a slight loss of MPG.
Some vehicle, particulaly Dodge trucks 2003 and later have no way to
disconnect fron axle and the ring, pinion and driveshaft is always
turnning (Dodge does not ever tell you that either) and given today
fuel crisis is it kinda silly to build a 4x4 that always has front
axle turning and not only adding to long term wear but also hurting
MPG a bit because it consumes power when being drug along.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

I am curious. What kind of a fake 4x4 system does Nissan have in it
that you have to stop and back up to shift??? I always thought they
were 'real' 4x4's....

That is total bullshit and I would 'never' even consider a vehicle I
couldn't use here in Canada. Here we need 'shift on the fly' 4x4 so we
can just shift into 4x4 when we see ice coming on the highway and shift
back into 2 wheel drive once clear of the ice or snow.

I own 3 Jeeps and even my 86 CJ7 is a shift on the fly into 4 high at
'any' legal speed, same for my 87 and 88 Cherokees.

In the winter, I always lock my CJ's hubs before heading out into iffy
weather so I can shift on the fly. The old Cherokees are vacuum locked
with all the newer Jeeps just coming with always locked front wheel
hubs.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

evan_roy (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:45:36 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca>
wrote:


Now here is the BS, only a fool would shift into 4x4 drive on a ice
patch at speed. Good way to get a one way ticket to the ditch. You
have basically no skid control that way because when you trun the
wheels take different paths and have different rotation rates so they
will break traction if locked in 4x4. Let me know where you drive in
Canada in winter so I can avoid it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

On 20 Nov 2006 18:39:57 -0800, evan_roy (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote:

On most vehicles like you have described the "reverse" is just to
unlock the hubs. When you shifted out of 4x4 you took care of any
potential problems. IOW you really were not in 4x4 during your trip,
you just were turning the front differential when it didn't need to be
turning and it used a bit of extra gas. It's also possible that the
hubs unlocked anyway after a few miles and you just didn't get as good
of mileage as you had thought you would.

SnoMan wrote:
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Where did I say I shifted 'into' 4x4 on ice?

We bought our Jeeps for the 4x4 and winter driving. We use 4x4 pretty
much always when it is snowing or frozen out. That is what 4x4 is made
for.

It is 'also' made to be shifted in and out of at any legal speed on
'most' 4x4's. Nissan must be the exception. I actually thought they
were decent 4x4's before now....

If you know how to drive 4x4 or if you bothered to read the owners
manual for your 4x4 you might learn how to use it. My owners manuals
state when in 4x4 to 'stay off the brakes' and use the gears and
steering for control.

I treat 4x4 just like any other shift. It is better to be in 2x4 at
left turn intersections so the wheels don't plow like you mention, so I
just shift before turning and shift back to 4x4 as I come out of the
turn.

We off road in the winter on snow and ice and use 4x4 for sure.

I even get paid extra to bring my 4x4 with it's winch and recovery gear
along on work service calls so the service truck is guaranteed to get
there and back.

Having a system like the Nissan is said to have in this thread is total
bullshit.

Can you imagine having to stop on a snowy highway to shift to 4x4 in a
squall storm (low visibility) or having to go into 'reverse' on the same
said highway to come out of 4x4 when the slippery patch is over? That
would be a good way to get killed.

I know there are some folks out there that don't think 4x4 is any good
and I guess you must be one of them, but from my experience, 4x4 is the
only way to go in the winter on snowy or icy roads.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:30:32 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca>
wrote:

I gues you cannot read your own type huh?

Not really it is not made for high speed cruising on ice and not
really for high speed at all unless you have a fulltime 4x4 system
with a diff between front and rear to allow some slipage between axle
and prevent torque wrap up which can cause tires to lose traction of
ice and spin out. I now your type, put itin 4wd and damn the torpedoes
and pray that with do not get in your way when you loose it.


They are made to shift in and out for sales more than anything else
not because it is the wise thing to do because it is pretty hard on
the syncro in Tcase to speed up heavy drive shaft and diff at speed
for it to engage. If you like your 4x4 and plan to keep it I would not
shift regulalry above 25 or so unless front hubs are engaged and axle
is already spinning.

Owners manual are written for idiots basically and for sales and
little more. Just like push button 4x4 was born to sell more 4x4s for
more profit, not because it is a better system

Somewhat true but this is not much of a factor with a IFS front axle
because you are not fighting the ujoint speed variance in a turn that
you get with a striaght front axle that can cause steering wheel whip
or lose of traction (u joint are not constant veleocity when bent past
about 3 degrees and the further you bend them the worse the speed
variance across the joint as it flexs and rotates



I use it only when I need it and have been for about 35 years have
you?


You need it if you do not realy know what you are doing or how to read
conditions because it is best to never get stuck to begin with.

No the BS is your comments not his

Again per BS. This guys is talking from homones not knowledge and
experiance so take it with a grain of salt

Again you are clueless and people like you scare me because I see them
in the ditch every winter scratching their butt and wondering why 4x4
got them in it. NEVER cruise at speed on ice in 4x4, only a fool that
likes to play with danger for themselves and the poor sole they hit if
they have the bad luck to be in your flight path when you loose it.
Lawyers would have a field day with you.

TheSnoMan.com

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:29:59 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:

Second that. Mike, the NP231 actually does have a half-assed synchro in
it - on the slider that locks the input to the output for 4hi. It's not
much, just enough to spin up the front driveshaft but is is there. Don't
know about the D300 but shift on the fly with the auto axle/hub
arrangement pretty much requires it. Of course, 4-lo requires the
ultimate syncro: brake to a full stop <g>.

For all the expertise here, why does everyone ignore the worst move you
can make on ice in 4wd: letting off the gas too fast. I've always gotten
in more trouble letting off than getting on it to hard, even with a
4-banger.

Man you are soo full of your own shit....

SnoMan wrote:
I can read perfectly, you seem to have the issue with comprehension.

Here I will type it again s l o w l y....

To 'see something coming' means it is up ahead of you, not under you.

So Jeep has had it's 4x4 system all wrong all these years eh?

I now your type, put itin 4wd and damn the torpedoes
You know dick all about me foole. In 40 years of driving on ice up here
in Canada, I seem to have managed to keep it on the road somehow. Could
it be that I actually 'know' how to drive my vehicles? Naw....

So you are saying that the Nissan salesman lied to the poor sucker, his
4x4 isn't meant to be driven on the road at all eh.


more than anything else
Syncro, in a T-case????? Wow, you are really grasping at BS here.
There is no syncro in the Cherokee t-case nor in my CJ's Dana 300
T-case.

If you like your 4x4 and plan to keep it I would not
Psst...., don't tell that to my 88 Cherokee that has 315,000 on it or my
other one with 285,000 on it or my CJ7 with 180,000 on it.

All are still on the original transmissions and T-cases somehow... LOL!

Once again, you are implying that Jeep has their 4x4 system 'wrong'
somehow.

Methinks it is the 4x4 wannabes like this poor Nissan that have it
wrong....

If you include under age (16) ice track racing, closer to 40 for me.

LOL! Ya right. Tell that to the boss that needs the service truck on
construction sites or has to attend to floods before the plows are out.

So are you saying the OP is a liar or hasn't read his owners manual so
he just doesn't know any better?....

He posted here worried about blowing things up or the risk of death
because he is under the impression he has to stop on the highway and go
into reverse to get out of 4x4.

Instead of correcting him, you are implying he is right and he should
'never' use his 'unsafe' 4x4?????

Again you speak of what you have no clue on.

The 'dangerous' person is a fool like you who thinks they have to crawl
along on the snow covered highway at no more than the 25 mph you stated
so you can control you vehicle. If this is you, then YOU SHOULD NOT BE
ON THE ROAD in those conditions.

Never mind that the transport trucks are cruising at 50-55+ mph on this
same snowy road and have to take their lives in their hand to get by
idiots like you.

I think it is 'much' safer to be in 4x4 and to 'keep up with the flow'
of traffic on the snow covered highway rather than acting like a freakin
rolling roadblock.

At least the cops up here in Canada are finally targeting idiots who
refuse to keep up with the flow of traffic with tickets now. They even
post minimum speeds on some roads now.

I'll bet you think hogging the left lane is ok too?

Mike

Will Honea wrote:
I stand corrected on that t-case syncro then. The Dana 300 has to have
the front driveshaft spinning via locked hubs to be able to shift on the
fly so I can see the need on the one with the vacuum axles that shift
after the t-case shift is done.

I agree 100% about watching the deceleration and the brakes.

With a 2 wheel drive only the front tires usually lock up when you hit
the brakes in snow due to the proportioning valve and then you only lose
the steering unless you pump or let up on the brakes.

With a part time or locked 4x4, when those front tires lock up, so do
the back ones due to a lack of a center diff. This will cause the
vehicle to slide sideways faster than you can blink.

Same for letting off the gas to fast, it is better to be on the gas
slightly at first when slowing. Downshifting too soon or hard can be
dangerous too. You also need power coming through a corner when in part
time 4x4 or you just slide off into the ditch.

I always recommend folks find an empty parking lot come first snow and
try out their 4x4 to see what happens when you turn or try to stop. I
used to take out groups of folks with Jeeps come first snow for this a
couple years back. At least if they lose it on open off road trails,
the speed is really slow. Sliding into a snowy ditch at 1 or 2 mph only
hurts egos... ;-)

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)