Always made me wonder why SUV 4x4's sold at all in suburban, urban and
most rural areas.
4-wheel-drive is not needed, generally unless one intends to go
off-road. And where can one go off-road in a suburban town? Perhaps in
the town park? Or maybe a neighborhood golf course? No, this type of
vehicle is useless to the average person. Unless he (she) plows snow.
Al Young

Alan Young wrote:
I beg to differ. We owned 2 4x4's and used them all the time on the
street in 4x4. Both my wife and I got off our different shift jobs at
times when the snowplows hadn't touched the roads yet, her at 12 AM and
myself at 4 AM.

I even got paid extra on one contract to bring my 4x4 so we were
guaranteed we could get to the house and back in the ice and snow storms
when frozen pipes usually happen.

We also travel and have used it many many times in the snow on trips.
From the countless cars we plodded on by that were in the snowbank or
ditch, I would say the 4x4 was very useful.

I do think a 4x4 would be useless for someone as yourself who thinks it
is only for horsing around, folks like that go way too fast for the
conditions and just end up in ditches off ramps. Or do you live
someplace sunny and warm?

Mike (Up in The Great White North)

Alan Young wrote:
Actually, very careful research is behind this phenomenon. If everyone
in the USofA buys a true 4x4, rumor is it that someone named Alan Young
will scream himself to death after realizing nobody gives a rat.

You raise a very good point. It is great sales tool for Detroit and has
helped put them in the pickle they are in today. It adds cost and weight
to a SUV and also reduces MPG 5 to 10% too. Detriot has done a fine job
over the years convincing public that they need 4wd when 99% of the time
even a front wheel drive will get you through and with better stability
and less quirks too.

On 1/28/2009 7:58 PM, Alan Young wrote:

"SnoMan" <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote

Well I have a different perspective. I have a farm and use my truck on
that farm. In the past, I used 2WD trucks, but not anymore. I got
tired of either not using the truck to check fences during the winter
(becasue of mud, not snow), or in taking a chance on a long walk home.
Neither option is attractive. I don't see a 10% reduction in mileage.
More like 5% or even less. For a 2009 F150, the 2WD 4.6L 6 speed 2WD
and 4WD version are rated the same mpg by the EPA. My 2009 F150 4WD
gets better mileage than my 1992 2WD F150.

I also own an AWD Fusion. Even though this is an "on demand" type AWD
system (as opposed to a full time system with a center differential),
I still noticed a significant difference in the handling on some
surfaces. I never have any wheel spin. The 2WD version I tested
defintiely handled worse on wet roads. I have my favorite traction
test - an uphill drive with a metal grate. The 2WD version spun the
tires on the grate. The AWD version never does. According to the EPA,
the AWD does significantly affect the fuel economy of a Fusion (almost
8%). However, I routinely exceed the EPA ratings. The combined EPA
rating for a 2007 Fusion AWD is 19 mpg. My average fuel economy is 22
mpg. I've never done as poorly as the city ratig (17) and I routinely
exceed the EPA highway rating (24) by 4 mpg despite routinely driving
70 mph (or more) on the highway. Now maybe the 2WD version would do
even better, but I am satisfied.

Ed

On 2/26/2009 9:59 AM, C. E. White wrote:
Farm use is different than a daily commuters needs. ALso 4wd induces a
fals sense of security and has stability issue and control issue once a
skid starts in 4wd at speed. The only 4wd truely rated for speed on
slick surfaces are old fulltime units that use a true differential
between front and rear axles that prevent traction loss on slick surface
due to torque bind for differences in rolling radius's due to tire loads
and tracks in turns. I have seen MANY 4x4 SUV's in ditches over the
years because of over confidence that 4wd would keep them safe and then
when they start to skid they find they have next to no control to try to
get out of it unless they act quickly and get it out of 4wd. I have
owned 4x4's for over 35 years now and currently own 3 but the only one I
ever "used" 4wd on at speed on slick surfaces is a old Jeep J20 P/U that
has Quadratrac fulltime 4wd. It is superior to any conventional or
clutch based autotrac 4wd system on slick roads. When roads are
bad/slick I feel more secure in a good front wheel drive car or my 4x4
that has studs on all for wheels (and running in 2wd too) than in a 4x4
with conventional 4x4 drive and no studs. I have been plowing snow for
over 25 years now and I know what works best on slick roads and what
does not because I have pulled many of them out of the ditch over the
years that had thought they were invincible with 4wd.

On 1/29/2009 9:19 AM, Mike Romain wrote:

Watch this guys advise! He is the same guy that used to brag a few years
ago about 33 inch tires on his Jeep with 3.31 axle ratios and what a
GREAT combo it was and that it was totally acceptable to loose most
usage of 5th gear and lug motor and have reduced performance too. He is
a legend in his own mind. While some do offer good advise, his is purely
ego driven and not one to bet your safety on. I am glad he does not live
around me so I do not have to worry about meeting him going sideways
down the road at me in my lane on a slick road because his ego over
stepped reality.

SnoMan wrote:

I see my not so favorite psychotic Usenet stalker is loose again. They
just let you out of jail?, been a while at least....

Mike

In article <f8GdnUm5rJjxVzvUnZ2dnUVZ_o7inZ2d (AT) earthlink (DOT) com>,
SnoMan <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote:

Get your meds adjusted Jacob.

On Feb 25, 11:01*am, SnoMan <ad... (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote:
Finally, the 'room full of monkeys at typewriters' approach has paid
off. Thank you for the hilarious typo. Detriot is such an obvious
and appropriate nickname I can't believe I never thought of it!

Toyota MDT in MO