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using 4x4 question
4x4 Cars Discussions about 4x4 cars. The on and off-road four wheel drive vehicle. (rec.autos.4x4)
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#11
 
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Re: using 4x4 question -
09-11-2006
, 07:02 PM
#12
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Nobody wrote: "SnoMan" <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote in message news:7t69g21qr2hjfd01hn7l26g5p4pgae1rkg (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:05:43 -0400, PeterD <peter2 (AT) hipson (DOT) net> wrote: Other than overstressing the differential/axels it is not harmful. It effectively doubles teh power at the wheels so in theory it could damage something due to excessive power. Not likely unless thee is a heavy load in bed and/or oversize tires. If it is stock and pretty empty in rear, you will loose traction long before you come close to hurting anything. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com Thank you all for the input. I am a little confused about overstressing the drive train though. I am thinking you all are referring to all the engines power being transferred to the rear. In Hi range I don't think it would make any different. Low range yes. But at the same time I am thinking their would be more stress on the drive train with all 4 wheels locked and binding on hard ground then their would be with front wheels disconnected and rolling freely. snip It's the amount of power going out. In 4 low gearing, the engine can stress all 4 wheels to the point of breaking things like u-joints and axles. They make parts just strong enough for this amount of power. Then suddenly you have the power meant for 4 wheels and put it to only 2 wheels and things can break easily. |
Btw, here a few more notes about an unlocked (free-wheeling) hub not being
supported by bearings, at least with some brands/constructions:
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/hub_lock.txt
--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink
The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand
<w.j.markerink (AT) a1 (DOT) nl>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]
#13
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Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca> wrote in news:4505D1A7.606B985 (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca: Nobody wrote: "SnoMan" <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote in message news:7t69g21qr2hjfd01hn7l26g5p4pgae1rkg (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:05:43 -0400, PeterD <peter2 (AT) hipson (DOT) net> wrote: Other than overstressing the differential/axels it is not harmful. It effectively doubles teh power at the wheels so in theory it could damage something due to excessive power. Not likely unless thee is a heavy load in bed and/or oversize tires. If it is stock and pretty empty in rear, you will loose traction long before you come close to hurting anything. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com Thank you all for the input. I am a little confused about overstressing the drive train though. I am thinking you all are referring to all the engines power being transferred to the rear. In Hi range I don't think it would make any different. Low range yes. But at the same time I am thinking their would be more stress on the drive train with all 4 wheels locked and binding on hard ground then their would be with front wheels disconnected and rolling freely. snip It's the amount of power going out. In 4 low gearing, the engine can stress all 4 wheels to the point of breaking things like u-joints and axles. They make parts just strong enough for this amount of power. Then suddenly you have the power meant for 4 wheels and put it to only 2 wheels and things can break easily. I disagree completely, here what was written a long time ago: Btw, here a few more notes about an unlocked (free-wheeling) hub not being supported by bearings, at least with some brands/constructions: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/hub_lock.txt -- Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink |
stated earlier in the thread and make perfect sense to me.
We can bend driveshafts into pretzels in 4 low while splitting the power
from front to rear.
I explode the Jeep locking hubs on a regular basis, so far a Warn one is
on one side and the Jeep one on the other to act like a fuse.
4 low has a 'lot' of power.
My axles have bearings though but that has squat to do with using 4 low
in two wheel drive...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
#14
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Hey, take it up with Jeep, it's what it says in my owners manual as I stated earlier in the thread and make perfect sense to me. We can bend driveshafts into pretzels in 4 low while splitting the power from front to rear. I explode the Jeep locking hubs on a regular basis, so far a Warn one is on one side and the Jeep one on the other to act like a fuse. 4 low has a 'lot' of power. |
Unless your jeep is very heavily loaded, it will loose traction long
before drive line is over stresses with stock tires and no mechanical
locker (like a Detriot). What raises heck with them is greatly
oversized tires with stock gears and lockers and users working low
range harder to make up for it and it twists off drive shafts or
wrecks tcase if axle shaft does not fail first. Big tires and lockers
are harder on drive axles than low range is alone.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
#15
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:50:37 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca wrote: Hey, take it up with Jeep, it's what it says in my owners manual as I stated earlier in the thread and make perfect sense to me. We can bend driveshafts into pretzels in 4 low while splitting the power from front to rear. I explode the Jeep locking hubs on a regular basis, so far a Warn one is on one side and the Jeep one on the other to act like a fuse. 4 low has a 'lot' of power. Unless your jeep is very heavily loaded, it will loose traction long before drive line is over stresses with stock tires and no mechanical locker (like a Detriot). What raises heck with them is greatly oversized tires with stock gears and lockers and users working low range harder to make up for it and it twists off drive shafts or wrecks tcase if axle shaft does not fail first. Big tires and lockers are harder on drive axles than low range is alone. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
use tires that don't spin which are nice because I don't get stuck easy
even with open diffs.
If the OP has some high traction tires on, he can also snap things in '4
low'.
We are talking about low in '2 wheel' drive though which you snipped for
some strange reason, 'not' 4x4 and even Jeep thinks you can snap things
with stock tires in that situation...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
#16
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I will 'almost' agree about the stock tires. I break things because I use tires that don't spin which are nice because I don't get stuck easy even with open diffs. |
place on axle to develope the same tractive effort on ground that is
the real killer here. If you go from say a 30 to a 35 you increase
axle torque requirement almost 20% for same road torque/power and then
they is the extra mass as well with loads axle more in shock loads.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
#17
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:35:12 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm (AT) sympatico (DOT) ca wrote: I will 'almost' agree about the stock tires. I break things because I use tires that don't spin which are nice because I don't get stuck easy even with open diffs. It is not just the traction, it is the added strain that bigger tires place on axle to develope the same tractive effort on ground that is the real killer here. If you go from say a 30 to a 35 you increase axle torque requirement almost 20% for same road torque/power and then they is the extra mass as well with loads axle more in shock loads. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
for the frame twisting factor but that still has zip to do with the OP's
question of doing damage by using low range in 2 wheel drive.
I could gear down, but due to damage I acquired by me not driving my
Jeep one day and being a passenger in a car that was t-boned on the
passenger side while I was in it, my 'hardcore' wheeling days are over
so I will spend my money on other things.
As it sits, my 'flying brick' of a CJ7 gets a nice 23 mpg highway and
almost never sees first in 4 low off road. The trails I run use 3rd low
mostly, 2nd sometimes. We don't rock crawl around here much, more mud
and marches.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
#18
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As it sits, my 'flying brick' of a CJ7 gets a nice 23 mpg highway |
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
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