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Audi A4 timing belt
Audi Audi Automobiles Discussions (alt.autos.audi)
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#21
 
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Re: Audi A4 timing belt -
08-22-2003
, 10:54 AM
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And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts, who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes willing to do the job. |
This is where you are totally wrong. There are very few people
becoming "mechanics" these days. Any old Moron with some Sears tools
can't cut it any more. Shops and dealerships cannot find any. At any
price. I still get a few offers a year.
Why would anyone volunteer to take shit from assholes all day long
if you can make more money at Dairy Queen? When's the last time some
idiot told you how to do your job?
Your average technician doesn't make squat until they have 10 years
or so under their belt. They start at under $20K. The bennies suck.
They can make a good living if they are good, and if they're
specialized. They still need a college education. They still need
electrical training. They still need $50,000 worth of tools. All for
what? To make $50g / year if they are excellent after 10 years on the
job? Fuck it. Spend the wasted 10 years in school, mis-diagnose 50%
of your cases, kill people, and still bring home 7 digits. No
expenses, no hassles, no idiots. And preferred parking. Are you
going to bring your own thread the next time you need stitches?
#22
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But in fact you are costing us money. a) by consuming bandwidth and b) by pissing off a guy who has made uncounted helpful contributions in this group FREE OF CHARGE. |
parts on the internet. That's all I did. Since when suggesting how to save
money is a bad thing to do? A couple of guys figure out that it will cut in
their profits and get all worked up about it. So what, this does not make me
wrong. You do not have to use my suggestion of course, be my guest, pay the
full (list) price on parts but do not blame me for the fact the guy is
pissed off. For the record his contributions to this NG in the last half a
year were virtually nonexistant - long before I made my post.
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I for my part prefer a mechanic who does the job _right_. I can find enough idiots who would charge me the same for bad work. That makes both of us. I also prefer competent mechanics and I am happy to |
with rip-off prices on Audi parts at Audi dealerships?
#23
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On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:01:46 GMT, "D O G" <somedog (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts, who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes willing to do the job. This is where you are totally wrong. There are very few people becoming "mechanics" these days. Any old Moron with some Sears tools can't cut it any more. |
skills and his willingness to accept customers with their own parts. This is
where we disagree, there is no relationship. Just because a mechanic will
install parts provided by a customer does not automatically make him
incompetent. Just because a mechanic refuses to take a customer with parts
does not make him an expert either.
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Why would anyone volunteer to take shit from assholes all day long if you can make more money at Dairy Queen? When's the last time some idiot told you how to do your job? Your average technician doesn't make squat until they have 10 years or so under their belt. They start at under $20K. The bennies suck. I have no doubts whatsoever that life of a car mechanic is not an easy one. |
are screwing their employees on salary and bennies, they are screwing their
customers on hourly rates, price of parts, the amount of time a job will
take etc. Just because customers get overcharged on parts does not mean that
the mechanic's lot will improve, it only means that the owner will take an
extra trip to Hawaii.
#24
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In message <v74ckv8h1sami225l67iunnne1o2rj6d2n (AT) 4ax (DOT) com JPF <frickjpremovetheobvious (AT) theoffice (DOT) net> wrote: F****** idiots like you are why I rarely participate here any longer. ... and that's how the rest of us lose out - JPF is one of the most helpful and knowledgeable guys around here. Thanks DOG! |
If you do need advise though, go to a place where audi enthusiasts hang
out - http://www.audiworld.com/forum/ You'll find more free advise then you
can handle, including where to buy parts on your own, what parts are
better/worse then OEM parts, how to install them on your own, why
stealerships suck, how people get ripped off on car repairs and how to get a
better deal.
And there is no need to kiss anybody's butt, and there are no primadonnas
threatening to leave just because somebody disagreed with them.
#25
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"Peter Bell" <peter (AT) bellfamily (DOT) org.uk> wrote in message news:e2a3fa254c.peter (AT) iyonix (DOT) earley.fourcom.com... Thanks DOG! My pleasure. If you do need advise though |
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, go to a place where audi enthusiasts hang out - http://www.audiworld.com/forum/ |
to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are.
I think I'll stick with rs6.com, thanks - at least the people there are
friendly and knowledgeable on my particular model.
--
Peter Bell - peter (AT) bellfamily (DOT) org.uk
#26
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What I normally need is advice (advise is a verb!). Hmmm - I've looked at audiworld, there's some good info, but there seem to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are. I think I'll stick with rs6.com, thanks - at least the people there are friendly and knowledgeable on my particular model. |
all because of me.
Thanks for advice on advice vs advise. English is actually my third language
and I do appreciate people correcting my mistakes.
#27
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On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:14:53 GMT, "D O G" <somedog (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: May I remind you that you are a mechanic, not an auto parts store. You make a living by selling your labor, not parts. Those two activities are not mutually exclusive. If there is not enough money for you in this business - >raise your hourly rate. Or, find a related business, and make extra money by doing that in addition to being a mechanic. For example, you could operate a tow truck service. Or, you could rent moving vans. Or - oh, wow, what a fantastic idea - you could source parts for customer repairs and mark them up as the market will bear. oh, wait. double/tripple charging parts to your ignorant customers. His ignorant customers don't need a white knight. All of the information they need to become less ignorant is available to them. Besides, who knows if this is actually ignorance. Maybe they just don't care. And just because everybody does it does not make it right. Hm, a voluntary business transaction between two consenting adults. I don't really think that needs anything to make it "right". At any rate, your opinion isn't going to make it "wrong" regardless of how vociferously that opinion is delivered. Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop across the street Well, go there then. Really. No one cares. and they are as good as you are, likely better. Illogical. Two mechanics: one is busy, one is idle. The busy mechanic is making money on parts and labor, working as many hours as he wants. The idle mechanic has a few free hours every day. He'd like to work more hours. Which mechanic is more likely to accept customer-supplied parts? The idle mechanic. He was planning on spending this afternoon looking at his shoes anyway, so he'd be happy to make the extra money by installing your part for you. By using customer-supplied parts, the busy mechanic actually profits less for a given time period. If he wasn't working with the customer-supplied parts, he'd be working on someone else's car, getting a margin on the parts. So, which one is the better mechanic? More important, do you commonly eat at restaurants with empty parking lots? But I am sure that in majority of cases people intelligent enough to know that they can get their own parts also know what parts they need, where to order them how much they cost and other details. Say, did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? And you know what, you yourself know what parts they need. Why don't you tell your customers what parts they should get. It'd take you 5 minutes to write down the part numbers Great, that leaves him with 95 more five minute periods in the work day. and I am sure your customers would be happy to pay for your time and be delighted with your approach. Of course they would. After all, they already appear perfectly happy to pay him for his time in the form of parts markups. How much do you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90? He probably charges what the market will bear. That's how business works. I could be way off base here, though. I mean, he really could be kidnapping people and their cars, dragging them away to his secret mountain lair, and refusing to release them until they've paid to have their ECU reset. I myself spent nearly three years locked up at a Speedy Muffler, where they fed me bread and water and regularly beat me. I was finally released after I agreed to have a chrome exhaust tip installed. If it's a couple of bucks as you say, you might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference. Actually, right up there, you were talking about a $100 difference. Quite an expensive warranty, isn't it? That depends on whether or not it's cheaper than having him replace it in six months. |
Pronto: you are in the wrong NG. Your reply is well considered and
well written but waaaay too political for this NG. Oh, and witty too.
Let the market rule. Death to statists.
#28
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"Bear" <who (AT) where (DOT) net.au> wrote in message news:3f446b3f$0$23606$5a62ac22 (AT) freenews (DOT) iinet.net.au... There is only one meaning of km's i.e. kilometres, and that was the text of the Audi service bulletin for Australia. Mine will cost about $AUS1000 including water pump...... "daytripper" <day_trippr (AT) REMOVEyahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:fja8kvs0pf96j89jrn015ok4sm97d5ao2n (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:54:22 +0800, "Bear" <who (AT) where (DOT) net.au> wrote: "Audi A4 owner" <huan (AT) atelo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:983664e2.0308201056.5484cc00 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com... I own a 1998 A4 Quattro that has ~83,000 miles on it. I'm bringing it in for service and the mechanic says that the timing belt and water pump should be replaced. He says that the belt manufacturer suggests replacing the belt at 60,000 miles even though the Audi owner's manual says 90,000 miles. Is this true or is the mechanic trying to rip me off? I have the latest bulletin in front of me dated 5th June '01, 90,000 km's or 4 years whichever comes first! My A4, '97 model only 47,000 km's, I'm going to have it and the water pump done in the next few months..... Are you using "km's" to (improperly) mean "thousands of miles" - or "kilometers"? My A4/S4 specs say first belt change is at 144,000 km (90,000 miles), applicable to the 1.8T, 2.8NA, and 2.7TT... After reading the entirety of this thread, I've come to two conclusions. One: The timing belt, etc. should be changed at ~60,000mi /~90,000km. And more importantly, two: that someone at Audi seriously dropped the ball on this and neglected to correct their error. Because it strikes me as extremely odd, at best, that the manufacturer recommendation for timing belt replacement is *both* 90,000 miles AND 90,000 kilometers (depending on location). Thus, it sounds very much like the people in charge of writing the imperial (mile) intervals were either mathematically brain dead or simply heard someone say "90,000" and didn't realize that this number referred to kilometers rather than miles. Either way, if all of the tales of "early" failures are true, Audi of America certainly needs to hear about it in some sort of large, organized fashion so that it can be corrected. (no, I'm not talking about a lawsuit...just a bunch of letters from "concerned owners" or something of that nature). Rob 2002 A4 3.0Q |
convert miles to km. Doh.
#29
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You know, I do agree with some of what you say especially regarding the way businesses operate. I have no idea how I got dragged into this whole stupid argument and I am not going to provide a line by line response. Here is the essense of what I am saying though: Most of the customers do come to get a noise fixed and happy to leave the shop with the noise gone. I never said it was illegal or scam or fraud to mark up parts and a doubling the price is indeed normal. We are not talking about double mark up though, the internet store selling me the same WP for $70 does make a profit too, probably the same double markup, and unlike shops they have to order them, stock them, ship them etc - really lots of work involved. In this example the true cost of the part is likely about $35, so charging $170 for it is OUTRAGEOUS). |
is typical business practice for retailers. Of course, that is after
the tier-one and tier-two distributors get their share. For higher
quality parts or designs, the retail mark can go to 10x. So, a $35
part selling at $170 is a 4.85x mark...not really outrageous.
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Anyway, they may be happy that there is no noise, but lots of them do grumble that it cost them a small fortune to get it fixed. That's especially applicable to Audis and other german cars which are notoriously expensive in repair/maintenance. |
maybe you shouldn't own it.
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All I did was suggested that an educated consumer can invest a little time, do a little research and save a significant amount of money on parts. And it's not that hard, really. I am NOT a car man, but I did it twice successfully and plan to do it again. (My first time was with rear brakes pads/rotors, dealer quoted $220 for parts plus tax, I got EOM pads and rotors for $100 on the internet including shipping). BTW stealer quoted 2 hours of labor for brakes at $90 hr, my non-audi mechanic did it in one hour at $55. Total dealer quote - $400+tax = $425, I paid $160 for the same job. |
consumer mindset that price is everything and value is nothing. Good
business behavior is based on a "win-win" basis. No business man
likes a customer that constantly tries to squeeze his margins for the
same level of service.
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Yes, you are right, the dealership did not make (take) extra $265 from me, do you really think I am supposed to be upset about it. HAHAHAHAHA. I am delighted to be an educated consumer and will spend MY money on MY kids. As an extra bonus I learned a lot about cars in the process, so it's going to be harder for mechanics to rip me off in the future. |
of the Wal-Mart University. Cheaper is better - this is a poor
person's mindset. Experience and quality comes at a cost and is worth
paying for. Why did you buy an Audi to begin with?!
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And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts, who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes willing to do the job. |
If you make it hard to make a living at something, then that trade
will become more rare as vendors exit. Rarity eventually drives the
price right back up...and you are forced to deal with the very thing
you were trying to avoid. They may perform the job, but I'm sure they
remember exactly who you were. Don't expect any favors or any
preferential treatment because you do not behave like a good business
partner, so why should they behave that way? Give the small business
owner a break...eh?
Elroy
2000 S4
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"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address (AT) example (DOT) com> wrote in message news:8qhbkv8cidraeth35v4k75vnp71a3cfthn (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:00:33 GMT, "D O G" <somedog (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a parts dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a lot of hard work involved of course :-) . Hitting machine with hammer: $20 Knowing where to hit it: $2480 but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer does not realize that he gets double charged on parts You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any business person what their cost is on one of their products, and they're tell you to kiss off. Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that? I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking. Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for yourself if they do not care. The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time, expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where to buy it. Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug. Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit of their knowledge. For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between consenting adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation with parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better off with getting their own parts. You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as fraud? Come on. Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business. There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate his business. Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills for his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic to all or any of this? Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's how the system works. I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You should stop that. Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90. Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with are not free. We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet? That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is indeed how the business works. QED. I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective, The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current mechanic. my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts and not let the business take advantage of him. Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on. Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed. Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one. You should go on Jeopardy or something. So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify any scam, any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal activity. Asked and answered. You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing. Ad hominem. Not even a good one. |
#30
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Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much his expertise is worth. |
talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
the internet. I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
(And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
parts).
I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
well. Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off. And when JPF states, that
he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
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