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oil coolers and engine temp

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  #1  
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Nate Nagel
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-15-2009 , 04:09 PM






Nathan M. Gant wrote:
Quote:
I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my '96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
operating temperature. I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. Radiator water is hot/warm but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.

I'm assuming that this is an oil/air cooler. Keep in mind that too cool
is as bad as too hot - oil should be over 212F to boil off any
condensation that makes its way into the oil while the car is sitting.
Are you using a thermostatic adapter?

This is one reason why I like oil/water heat exchangers like Porsche (at
least in the 944) and VW use. No need for additional thermostats as the
oil can only be cooled to the temperature of the water in the cooling
system, which should be around 195F. In practice, the oil always runs a
little hotter as heat transfer slows as delta T decreases.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel




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thenitedude@yahoo.com
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-15-2009 , 04:39 PM






On Mar 15, 7:09*pm, "Nathan M. Gant" <ngan... (AT) peoplepc (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:
I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my '96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
operating temperature. *I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. *Radiator water is hot/warm but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.
LOL. Why would any one wast money/time doing this to a Caravan?!?! LOL

And as Nate said, "...Keep in mind that too cool is as bad as too
hot..."


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  #3  
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Nathan M. Gant
 
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Default oil coolers and engine temp - 03-15-2009 , 05:09 PM



I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my '96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
operating temperature. I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. Radiator water is hot/warm but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.



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  #4  
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Paul
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-15-2009 , 05:59 PM



thenitedude (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 15, 7:09 pm, "Nathan M. Gant" <ngan... (AT) peoplepc (DOT) com> wrote:
I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my '96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
operating temperature. I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. Radiator water is hot/warm but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.

LOL. Why would any one wast money/time doing this to a Caravan?!?! LOL
Perhaps he is not wealthy enough to buy a new van and has to keep the old one running?
Or he could be a Derale spammer.


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  #5  
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Don Stauffer
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-16-2009 , 07:57 AM



Nathan M. Gant wrote:
Quote:
I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my '96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
operating temperature. I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. Radiator water is hot/warm but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.


It sounds like your engine is running TOO cool. It should boil if the
cap is removed, or be close to boiling, with modern systems.

The higher the coolant temperature, the higher the engine efficiency, as
long as the temp does not get so high that it damages the engine. If
they had higher temp lubricants, they would run water temps higher than
they do today. One of the reasons for the improved engine efficiency
today is that the engines are run hotter with pressurized coolant
systems, compared to sixties and earlier.


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  #6  
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myzr
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-19-2009 , 02:38 AM



It's true that the oil should not be allowed to be over cooled.
The oil's primary job is to lubricate & it can't do a good enough job if it's contaminated water & unburnt fuel thru crankcase dilution, while it's the coolant's primary job to prevent the engine from overheating.

"Nate Nagel" <njnagel (AT) roosters (DOT) net> wrote

Nathan M. Gant wrote:
Quote:
I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my '96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
operating temperature. I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. Radiator water is hot/warm but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.

I'm assuming that this is an oil/air cooler. Keep in mind that too cool
is as bad as too hot - oil should be over 212F to boil off any
condensation that makes its way into the oil while the car is sitting.
Are you using a thermostatic adapter?

This is one reason why I like oil/water heat exchangers like Porsche (at
least in the 944) and VW use. No need for additional thermostats as the
oil can only be cooled to the temperature of the water in the cooling
system, which should be around 195F. In practice, the oil always runs a
little hotter as heat transfer slows as delta T decreases.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel



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  #7  
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Nathan M. Gant
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-19-2009 , 10:03 PM




I'm not convinced it's possible to run an engine too cool in subtropical
enviroments of Florida. Heat is the main enemy of an internal combustion
machine.

Keeping oil cool in not necessary in northern areas, for sure. But I'd say
it'd be okay to install one in that case, and not run the electric fan so
you only have partial cooling. Every 20 deg. drop in oil temp, doubles oil
life. So I've read.

I'm not using a thermostatic adapter, I'm afraid it would be a redundant
part to go wrong and block the oil flow in system.
FWIW I've heard that removing the thermostat in the radiator will also drop
temperature down a few more degrees, so that's been recommended for cars in
tropical or subtropical environments.

I'd say at the moment the radiator will get close to boiling, but no way
will it blast steam in my face when I unscrew the cap. Maybe it might do
this in July, I fear we'll have a brutal summer this year, but so far it
runs okay for me.

Not a derale spammer, I'm not promoting any brand of oil cooler, just that
it is definitely more efficient to use an electric fan mated to the oil
cooler.

I happen to like Caravans myself.

I've had lots of previous experience running external oil coolers in
air-cooled vee-dubs, so I am well aware of its benefits to these air-cooled
4-bangers.

I have 160k miles on this 4-cylinder van, and I want to see it go for
another 100k.

Aren't oil coolers de riguer in NASCAR or IMSA race cars anway?

"Don Stauffer" <stauffer (AT) usfamily (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:
Nathan M. Gant wrote:
I just installed an external Derale oil cooler (with electric fan) in my
'96
Dodge Caravan (4- cylinder) and I am very impressed with the sudden drop
in
operating temperature. I can drive in slow-n-go traffic during hottest
times in a Florida afternoon, unscrew my radiator cap, and I don't get a
scalding steam bath blowing up in my face. Radiator water is hot/warm
but
not boiling.

I installed the oil filter sandwich adpater to add external hoses in/out
to
cooler. Also increase oil capacity to about 1.5 qrts.


It sounds like your engine is running TOO cool. It should boil if the
cap is removed, or be close to boiling, with modern systems.

The higher the coolant temperature, the higher the engine efficiency, as
long as the temp does not get so high that it damages the engine. If
they had higher temp lubricants, they would run water temps higher than
they do today. One of the reasons for the improved engine efficiency
today is that the engines are run hotter with pressurized coolant
systems, compared to sixties and earlier.



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  #8  
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N8N
 
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Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-20-2009 , 09:24 AM



On Mar 20, 12:03*am, "Nathan M. Gant" <ngan... (AT) peoplepc (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:
I'm not convinced it's possible to run an engine too cool in subtropical
enviroments of Florida. *Heat is the main enemy of an internal combustion
machine.
Doesn't matter whether you're convinced or not; oil should run at
Quote:
212F for maximum engine life. Shouldn't run too much hotter than
that, of course, but it needs to get hot to drive out moisture.

nate


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  #9  
Old   
Nathan M. Gant
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: oil coolers and engine temp - 03-20-2009 , 08:20 PM



Granted, rate of water evaporation slows as temperature drops, but
evaporation is a surface effect that will happen even during icy conditions.

Oil loses viscosity with increasing temperature, so 212F may not necessarily
optimize lubrication. I would guess that the amount of moisture in engine
oil isn't such a big factor to warrant a mandatory 212F temp. Any moisture
(water) in an engine will evaporate at any temperature, hot or cold.
Moisture does not have be (boiling) at 212F to evaporate. You can hang
clothes on a laundry line, the temperature is far below boiling point, and
you have rapid evaporation (dry clothes).

0W-5 and 0W10 have much more stable viscosities thru the range of oil temps
(say from 180F to 280F), so why not, when using an oil cooler w/electric
fan, switch to a lower-viscosity grade of oil?
------------------------------------------------------------
Properly maintained 911 engines can last over 300,000 miles when oil
temperature is kept in the optimal 180-210F range."
from www.elephantracing.com

"The ideal operating range for engine oil is 180F through 200F."
http://perma-cool.com


"N8N" <njnagel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

On Mar 20, 12:03 am, "Nathan M. Gant" <ngan... (AT) peoplepc (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:
I'm not convinced it's possible to run an engine too cool in subtropical
enviroments of Florida. Heat is the main enemy of an internal combustion
machine.
Doesn't matter whether you're convinced or not; oil should run at
Quote:
212F for maximum engine life. Shouldn't run too much hotter than
that, of course, but it needs to get hot to drive out moisture.

nate




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  #10  
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TE Cheah
 
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Default cool pcv better ( Re: oil coolers and engine temp ) - 03-03-2010 , 11:43 AM






| I am very impressed with the sudden drop in
Quote:
operating temperature.
I think if a intercooler is added to PCV hose, air intake will be much
cooler til (i) EGR ( consumes electricity - scarce when alternator is
hot esp when heated by aircon radiator's hot air fanned out ) will be
unnecesary (ii) lower octane petrol can be used (iii) air intake is
denser ( more oxygen ) & combustion faster so more torque &
lower exhaust noise.
Less messy & weight than an oil cooler + oil.

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