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Why Toyota is kicking GM's ass
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#51
 
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Re: Why Toyota is kicking GM's ass -
05-20-2007
, 01:52 AM
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 23:34:03 -0400, 80 Knight wrote: If you mean me, 80, you're way off. You may remember, I'm a proud Air Force veteran, and I remember Pearl Harbor very well, thank you. Nice to see you again, BTW. My apologies Natalie. I was not speaking of you, as I have known you too long to think like that. I had read too many post's yesterday (as well as articles on the NET), and my cage got rattled. As you may remember, I live right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant is. It really pains me to see people posting how they want GM (or any auto manufacture for that matter) to go belly up, as I know for a fact what it would do to my town, and the surrounding ones. Most of my family either works, or has worked for GM in some capacity. If GM were to close up shop here, this place would be a ghost town. Do I have a problem with people thinking Toyota, Honda, ect, is #1? Of course not, but cheering and pleading for GM to go belly up so they can stay #1, or just because someone once had a 1970 Chevy that rusted, is pretty selfish, IMHO. But, as I said, nothing was intended towards you, and you have my apologies if I made it seem like it was. Nobody wants to see GM go belly up. |
who want (or at least, say they want) just that.
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WE WANT TO SEE THEM BUILD BETTER CARS!!! Let's put it this way: in 1988 I was looking for a new car for wifey. I was leaning towards Toyota or Honda but was also thinking Ford or Buick. Buick made some nice looking sleds in the late 80's. The steering felt cheap. The switchgear felt cheap. the doorhandles felt cheap. the mirror felt cheap. and remember, I had been driving Toyotas for 14 years at this time! The Fords were better but didn't like anything we could afford. What I could afford was an Escort or (what was that slightly larger thing...?) If I'm going to pay Corolla prices why not get a Corolla? But I went one better and got an Accord for LESS than a Corolla. The steering felt tight. the switchgear felt tight. the mirror felt tight. the doorhandles felt tight. |
them. SE, LE...A 1987 SE (top of the line for it's year) is the car I
learned to drive on. I loved that car. I could predict every move it was
going to make, I knew every sound, and it felt solid. It would take corners
like nothing, and was quite peppy for a (now seemingly small) 2.8L V6. My
uncle actually still has one that he bought off a family member. Very low
mileage, totally mint. He takes it out for weekends and the such.
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If GM focused on what the *CUSTOMERS* want and not what the *SHAREHOLDERS* want, then the shareholders would be all set, because people would be buying their cars! Simple, really. Toyota and Honda learned it a long time ago... |
want, why do they still sell so many vehicles? I will admit, not every GM
produced today is an attractive car, to me. However, neither are any of the
other manufactures either. I drive a 1996 Bonnie SSEi, my sister has a 2003
Grand Am GT (with RamAir, and all that jazz), and we honestly can't find
newer cars we like better. I like my plastic body panels, my 'bubble'
mirrors, and my fog-lights, and my sister loves her RamAir hood. ;-)
#52
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 23:34:03 -0400, 80 Knight wrote: As you may remember, I live right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant is. Hey, BTW, is Tully's in Oshawa still open? |
is getting so damned big now, it's not even funny. Same with attaching town
Bowmanville. You don't dare go through either town between 3-6pm, unless you
like heavy traffic. The 401 highway isn't a picnic either.
#53
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"80 Knight" ... | <HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix> ... | | > "80 Knight" wrote in message | >> The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. | | > Are you talking about the successful economics of modern day Japan, or | > their | > day of infamy in 1941? | | > We gave them a heck of a defeat back then. It wasnt brag, just fact. | | > If we want to win economically, it will again have to be no brag, just | > fact. | | The question is though, can we win? From what I have read, GM's quality is | going up, while Toyota is recalling more and more cars every day, yet at the | moment, they are #1. If GM car's lasted 500,00 miles, never failed, and were | priced nicely, would we win then? Or, would people still think Toyota's are | 'better'? To some people, just having the word "Toyota" on the front grill | means the car is wonderful, regardless of how often it breaks down. | Nope - I'd love to drive an American car again. I really would like to see them rebound. |
#54
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post-gazette.com http://snipurl.com/1l0sj How did Toyota manage to squeeze the U.S. passenger-car market from the U.S. giant, General Motors? |
Toyota investigates what customers do want and need.
Toyota then make cars to fulfill those wants and needs.
Toyota makes sure the whole chain is reasonably happy.
Toyota keeps in touch with the customers afterwards through the
service and makes sure everything done with or to the car is
registered throughout the life of the car.
Toyota organizes occasional events for their customers like washing
all toyotas for free, going on trips together.
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Toyota enjoys much lower labor costs in the United States and benefits from an undervalued yen for cars made in Japan. In the United States, this comes to about $2,500 per vehicle. The entry level and middle level market segments are very sensitive to price and vehicle durability. Toyota has been able to translate its cost advantage into vehicles with higher, more attractive content and longer life than General Motors. Toyota's Camry and Corolla, and derivatives of those cars, have been able to dominate their market spaces -- they set the standard others must follow and they establish the price thresholds. ========== What strategies does Toyota follow to retain its No.1 position in the global market? |
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Toyota is constantly looking for ways to lower costs and improve products. It translates most of the additional profits it earns, over GM, into better product design and additional capacity. At GM, the executives vote themselves bonuses and the union demands more benefits and featherbedding at the first sign of profits. ========== While GM is closing its factories in its native country, how can Toyota open its new plants in North America? |
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It offers customers cars that are less expensive and less trouble to own over the life of the cars. Toyotas don't break as much and perform well. GM vehicles require more repairs and don't age well. ========== How will the native slogan "Wake up America and Buy American" affect the future of Toyota in the U.S. market? |
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Not much. Thanks to big bonuses to executives, outsized fringe benefits for the United Auto Workers union, poor product quality and just plain arrogance, GM and the UAW have lost the loyalty of American car buyers. Americans are not protectionist in their buying habits, and GM executives and the UAW have lost the trust and loyalty of many younger car buyers. |
#55
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Now, the '88 'Monza' a friend had, with a V8...! Who the hell ever put an 85 MPH Speedo in THAT?!?!?! |
GM was getting into IMSA.
#56
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| Nope - I'd love to drive an American car again. I really would like to see them rebound. |
I would have loved to save money and purchased a Ranger, S-10, or
Colorado over my current and previous Tacomas and "Pickups".
Unfortunately, there's a satisfaction and quality gap much wider than
the price difference. My current '05 Tacoma is as close to a perfect
vehicle as I've ever had. The sad part is that I never even
considered a Dakota 'till after the fact, because I forgot they even
existed! I checked one out, and I didn't miss anything.
I still own a Wrangler Sport (which is actually total crap,
quality-wise), because there is nothing else like the only "real"
Jeep. One of the most important saving graces for the Wrangler is the
huge aftermarket. As parts fall off, you can get much better, cheaper
aftermarket replacements. Don't get me going on the 4 door new
version... Power locks and windows, on a JEEP? = 8^(
#57
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"Wickeddoll" ... | | > "Hachiroku ????" | > | > | >> "BoobooBear"... | > | >> | | > | >> | "Mike Marlow"... | > | >> | | > | >> | > <HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix>... | > | >> | | > | >> | >> "George Orwell" | > | >> | >> in message | > | >> | >> > Toyota enjoys much lower labor costs in the United States and | > | >> benefits | > | >> | >> > from an undervalued yen for cars made in Japan. In the United | > | >> States, | > | >> | >> > this comes to about $2,500 per vehicle. | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | >> Blah, blah, blah... | > | >> | >> Toyota has the perception of being higher quality, and we pay | > | >> | >> higher | > | >> | > prices | > | >> | >> for it. | > | >> | >> They service what they sell, build a hell of a good car,and | > stand | > | >> behind | > | >> | > it. | > | >> | | > | >> | >> GM lost the war. | > | >> | | > | >> | > GM is losing the battle, but the war will never be over. Like | > | >> everything | > | >> | > else in life, this battleground will have continued ups and downs | > | >> forever. | > | >> | | > | >> | > -- | > | >> | | > | >> | > -Mike- | > | >> | > mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | GM is currently planning some B-17 sorties to bomb the Toyota | > | >> | facturies | > | >> in | > | >> | japan this summer. | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> Bombing the Japanese didn't stop us from buying their cars. | > | | > | > The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. | | > If you mean me, 80, you're way off. You may remember, I'm a proud Air | > Force | > veteran, and I remember Pearl Harbor very well, thank you. Nice to see | > you | > again, BTW. | | My apologies Natalie. I was not speaking of you, as I have known you too | long to think like that. I had read too many post's yesterday (as well as | articles on the NET), and my cage got rattled. As you may remember, I live | right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant | is. It really pains me to see people posting how they want GM (or any auto | manufacture for that matter) to go belly up, as I know for a fact what it | would do to my town, and the surrounding ones. Most of my family either | works, or has worked for GM in some capacity. If GM were to close up shop | here, this place would be a ghost town. Do I have a problem with people | thinking Toyota, Honda, ect, is #1? Of course not, but cheering and pleading | for GM to go belly up so they can stay #1, or just because someone once had | a 1970 Chevy that rusted, is pretty selfish, IMHO. But, as I said, nothing | was intended towards you, and you have my apologies if I made it seem like | it was. Okies! How are ya? I'm doing alright these days, thanks for asking.  How have you beendoing? Pretty good. The kids are really different from our old NG days. Craig |
I haven't been on the geek NGs in quite some time. The trolls took over,
and I lost interest in talking about the shows, so...
I just hang out on this NG and watch the car talk in-between the political
rhetoric LOL
Natalie
#58
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 00:45:03 -0400, "Wickeddoll" wickeddoll1958DieSpammersDie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: | Nope - I'd love to drive an American car again. I really would like to see them rebound. SAAAAAAAAAME HERE! I would have loved to save money and purchased a Ranger, S-10, or Colorado over my current and previous Tacomas and "Pickups". Unfortunately, there's a satisfaction and quality gap much wider than the price difference. My current '05 Tacoma is as close to a perfect vehicle as I've ever had. The sad part is that I never even considered a Dakota 'till after the fact, because I forgot they even existed! I checked one out, and I didn't miss anything. |
Most people I know with them seem very happy with everything except gas
mileage. But I wouldn't rule out Toyotas either.
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I still own a Wrangler Sport (which is actually total crap, quality-wise), because there is nothing else like the only "real" Jeep. One of the most important saving graces for the Wrangler is the huge aftermarket. As parts fall off, you can get much better, cheaper aftermarket replacements. Don't get me going on the 4 door new version... Power locks and windows, on a JEEP? = 8^( |
I always liked the look of the old Jeep, and it's amazing how many of them
are still on the road.
Natalie
#59
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 02:58:43 -0400, 80 Knight wrote: Nope - I'd love to drive an American car again. I really would like to see them rebound. Me too, Natalie, me too. I went and looked at an HHR when I was in the market for a new car. I like the old "pie wagons" from the 50's, and the HHR had good styling, gets decent mileage, and, since I'm a bass player, PLENTY of room for the amps, the PA, the speakers, etc. Looks, room, decent radio, what's not to like? The engine. The only model I could find was the base HHR with the low end 4 cyl and a AT slushbox. Damn thing couldn't get out of it's own way! Even flogging it on the on-ramp was a struggle! |
engine and Power-slide tranny. My S-10 in 1995 wasn't much better. My
sister's 95 Corolla could do LOTS better. Plus they put in 2-wheel ABS
which made stopping very tricky on slick roads. Typical General
Maintenance.
And the 93, when it was new, could get 39 mpg on the highway fairly
steadily. This new one finally hit 31 mpg the other day, doesn't have the
overdrive or the big engine.
I've had less trouble out of my 93 in the 7 years I drove it almost 150,000
miles than the S-10, 4 years and 50,000 miles.
Charles of Schaumburg
#60
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 11:33:41 +0000, Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote: Unfortunately, there's a satisfaction and quality gap much wider than the price difference. I think the satisfaction gap is bigger. I have driven some decent S-10's. We had one at CarQuest, the only problem was the tranny wouldn't kick in properly. I would start the truck, put it in drive and hit the gas, and then the tranny would kick and we were off to the races! It was a 4.3 so it would chirp the tires real good! Other than that it was a decent truck, and the shop next door (FINALLY) fixed the tranny after we got the right parts. Then I had one come in at the dealer. Thing was kinda beat bodywise, the owner did some repair and then painted it with Krylon. Was a 2.8 5-speed, with a LONG bed! (Full 8 foot!) Gooney looking thing, but ran like a top. I had just decided to keep it for myself when a guy came in waving cash. That was 4 years ago. He works at Sumitomo a block from me, and STILL has the truck, still runs great, still looks horrible. The only thing is, I am a BIG guy and the cabs in the S-10s are made for midgets... |
1995, I kept bumping my head on the back glass when I hit bumps cause I had
to drive with the seat that far back. I'm only 5-10.
Again, I could have bought the identical truck with the identical options
from GMC and had the privilege of paying 1,000 more for it. If they're
still running with the same engine sets they had in 1995, they're not very
good. They had the 2.2 4 that had a wierd torque curve. Then they had the
4.3 that only put out a measly 40 more horsepower than the 4 and weighed so
much more that the overall performace was actually WORSE. Then they had
some sort of boosted 4.3 that put out about another 40 horses, but you had
to pay almost twice as much for that one, since it only came in the extended
cab and with a lot of gegaws.
Typical stupid GM thinking. Lowball Toyota, but then require the buyer to
actually pay a lot more to get something decent and get a lot of things they
may not want.
Charles of Schaumburg
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