<cross-posted to both alt.autos.alfa-romeo and uk.rec.cars.maintenance -
please reply to relevent group>


Hacking it down the M40 today, making fair progress, all of a sudden the
engine started to die. There were no nasty mechanical noises, no
overheating, no oil warning light.

Pulled onto the hard shoulder, called the RAC. Whilst waiting, I tried
cranking it over, and the engine started to catch, but wouldn't fire and
run.

RAC bloke reckoned there was a spark at the crown lead, and also at the
plug leads - but it was fairly weak at the plug leads.

He pulled off the dizzy cap and reckoned there wasn't much wrong in
there..... but more of this later.

Then he pronounced 'it might have skipped a tooth' - not all that likely
I'd have thought, as at least one bank of cylinders would have been
showing signs of life if this was the case. Also, it's an interferance
design (ISTR), so I think I'd have noticed if it had skipped.

Anyway, back to the dizzy cap - I've pulled it off and looked at the cap
and the arm..... the terminals in the cap look a bit blackened and
'furry', and the rotor arm is pretty badly erroded and blackened on one
edge.

I reckon this is the problem - am I likely to be right?

Sorry it's so long, but I _really_ need to fix this as we're down to 1
car in 3 working (again).

Cheers,
--
Steve H
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800
VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 33 16v - Alfa 33 1.7ie
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:46:38 +0100, steve (AT) italiancar (DOT) co.uk (Steve H)
wrote:

Try spraying some starter fluid down the throttle body if the RAC
fellow didn't. If that does not work you will have to check the
timing marks. (doubt you could tell one tooth being off from the
fuzzy thing)

Lurker <_@_.com> wrote:

He tried that - a brief splutter and then nothing again - just flooded
and died.

He reckoned on a skipped tooth because he could see a spark at the plug
leads and there was fuel getting through.

The dizzy cap and rotor look well knackered. So I'll start there.
--
Steve H
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800
VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 33 16v - Alfa 33 1.7ie
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 20:35:46 +0100, steve (AT) italiancar (DOT) co.uk (Steve H)
wrote:

I would check the timing marks before turning it over any more, You
may have skipped several teeth and the RAC fellow would be able to
tell this from the dizzy cap alignment.

shazzbat <shazzbat (AT) spamlessness (DOT) fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

erk!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, wouldn't it run badly on one bank of
cylinders if the compression had gone on the other?

I'd have to be _very_ unlucky if the compression went on both sides at
the same time, I'd have thought.
--
Steve H
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800
VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 33 16v - Alfa 33 1.7ie
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"Steve H" <steve (AT) italiancar (DOT) co.uk> wrote

I don't think so. The first sign of problems in this area would be difficult
starting.

I would carry out a compression test and keep your fingers crossed....

HTH

Steve

"Steve H" <steve (AT) italiancar (DOT) co.uk> wrote

You would be very unlucky indeed if all compression was lost, but a loss of
compression can be caused or accompanied by an excess of friction due to
whatever is knackered, this means the engine won't turn over sprightly
enough to run although it wants to. This extra friction causes the slowing
down/loss of power you describe. I had this years ago and it turned out to
be a crankshaft thrust bearing, You know the big end bearing with the
flanges to limit end float? Anyway, I didn't have any warning lights either,
it just died. Remind you of anything?

Remember that the engine needs three things in order to run. Fuel, sparks,
and compression. from what I read in your OP, the first two would seem OK,
which leaves compression. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and I hope
it's something not too expensive, but I firmly believe there is a case for a
compression test, if only to eliminate it from your enquiries as the plod
would say.

Good luck.

Steve

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:08:31 +0100, steve (AT) italiancar (DOT) co.uk (Steve H)
wrote:

I am giving this RAC fellow some credit. He would have checked the
cap for moisture since running through a puddle is the likeliest cause
of a sudden loss of power short of running out of gas. The starter
fluid did not produce a result so the timing belt is suspect. Often
times a motor will run with the timing belt off by one tooth.
Unfortunately the belt may continue to slip until there is an
interference problem. The timing belt effects all cylinders equally.

Lurker <_@_.com> wrote:

Not on a 33 it doesn't.

At least, not unless _both_ belts have slipped at the same time.
--
Steve H
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800
VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 33 16v - Alfa 33 1.7ie
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

Lurker <_@_.com> wrote:

I'd expect some sign of life from the intact side of the motor, at
least.

It's about 16k short of a belt-change (or 10k for me.....)

Compression test tomorrow, I reckon.
--
Steve H
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800
VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 33 16v - Alfa 33 1.7ie
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #