VW auto transmission - no drive

#11

In article <1o9Fl.13499$OO7.8897 (AT) text (DOT) news.virginmedia.com>, Mrcheerful
<nbkm57 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Don't know this box but on all the ones I've worked on the tangs which
drive the pump are so long that you'd not get the box bolted up if
they weren't engaged correctly.

You would be amazed at what people manage to do, I have seen clutch
plates in backwards, cambelts routed wrong but the engine still runs,
battery leads reversed, lhd headlights fitted in rhd vehicles, bulbs
upside down, brake pipes cut and crimped over, thermostats in backwards,
disc pads in metal side to disc. etc. etc. Wrong wheels that rub on the
struts. Wrong wheels that cause the studs to bend and snap off. All
owner induced faults.

Oh indeed. But in this case - unless the box is very different from any
I've worked on - the tangs will be about an inch long, and unless
correctly located the box simply won't fit home to the bellhousing by
approx the same amount. And very few would think this ok. ;-)

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

#12

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk> wrote

Quote:

In article <wB5Fl.13337$OO7.10730 (AT) text (DOT) news.virginmedia.com>,
Mrcheerful <nbkm57 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
when you put the TC back on, did you rotate it while fitting and
pushing, so that it engaged with all the internal bits? after
refitting the engine it should have been necessary to pull the TC up to
the flex plate, did you pull it out? or was it already touching ? If
it was touching straight away then it might well be that it never was
engaged with the pump, in which case it will never start pumping and
never drive. I haven't done this myself, but I do know someone that
did (on a ford). Another possible is if the flex plate was removed and
there should be a spacer which has been left out.

Don't know this box but on all the ones I've worked on the tangs which
drive the pump are so long that you'd not get the box bolted up if they
weren't engaged correctly.

I came across one like this. I don't know if it was the dogs not engaged or
the converter nose not sitting in the crank but the chumps concerned had
managed to get the (long) bellhousing bolts to start and just wound them
fully up regardless. This buckled the flex plate and the starter would not
engage the ring gear properly! No damage to the box however.

Julian

#13

On 15 Apr, 09:53, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d... (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

In article <1o9Fl.13499$OO7.8... (AT) text (DOT) news.virginmedia.com>, Mrcheerful

nbk... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Don't know this box but on all the ones I've worked on the tangs which
drive the pump are so long that you'd not get the box bolted up if
they weren't engaged correctly.
You would be amazed at what people manage to do, I have seen clutch
plates in backwards, cambelts routed wrong but the engine still runs,
battery leads reversed, lhd headlights fitted in rhd vehicles, bulbs
upside down, brake pipes cut and crimped over, thermostats in backwards,
disc pads in metal side to disc. etc. etc. Wrong wheels that rub on the
struts. *Wrong wheels that cause the studs to bend and snap off. *All
owner induced faults.

Oh indeed. But in this case - unless the box is very different from any
I've worked on - the tangs will be about an inch long, and unless
correctly located the box simply won't fit home to the bellhousing by
approx the same amount. And very few would think this ok. ;-)

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

* * Dave Plowman * * * *d... (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OK more follow up. I'm trying hard to do everything other than taking
the engine out again. I just went and uncoupled the drive plate from
the torque converter. My transmission has cut outs in the bell housing
so you can spin the TC by hand. It was very smooth running and was
lined up so there was maybe a mm of play back and front after the
bolts were removed.

No grating sounds like it wasn't engaged properly. But what was
noticeable was a gurgling sound like the TC was only half full of
fluid. This suggests either a blockage so fluid isn't getting through
or the pump isn't working.

I've also had a look at the accelerator linkage, but this doesn't seem
to have anything to do with it other than have a pivot on top of the
trans. I don't think it controls anything inside. That said, the kick
down is supposed to come through the accelerator pedal, so I'm still
looking.

#14

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:48:56 +0100, andyv <avevers (AT) fastmail (DOT) fm> wrote:

Quote:

On 15 Apr, 09:53, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d... (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk> wrote:
In article <1o9Fl.13499$OO7.8... (AT) text (DOT) news.virginmedia.com>, Mrcheerful

nbk... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Don't know this box but on all the ones I've worked on the tangs
which
drive the pump are so long that you'd not get the box bolted up if
they weren't engaged correctly.
You would be amazed at what people manage to do, I have seen clutch
plates in backwards, cambelts routed wrong but the engine still runs,
battery leads reversed, lhd headlights fitted in rhd vehicles, bulbs
upside down, brake pipes cut and crimped over, thermostats in
backwards,
disc pads in metal side to disc. etc. etc. Wrong wheels that rub on
the
struts. *Wrong wheels that cause the studs to bend and snap off. *All
owner induced faults.

Oh indeed. But in this case - unless the box is very different from any
I've worked on - the tangs will be about an inch long, and unless
correctly located the box simply won't fit home to the bellhousing by
approx the same amount. And very few would think this ok. ;-)

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

* * Dave Plowman * * * *d... (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OK more follow up. I'm trying hard to do everything other than taking
the engine out again. I just went and uncoupled the drive plate from
the torque converter. My transmission has cut outs in the bell housing
so you can spin the TC by hand. It was very smooth running and was
lined up so there was maybe a mm of play back and front after the
bolts were removed.

No grating sounds like it wasn't engaged properly. But what was
noticeable was a gurgling sound like the TC was only half full of
fluid. This suggests either a blockage so fluid isn't getting through
or the pump isn't working.

You are sure you've got enough fluid in it? & that you put the stator back
in the right way round?

Quote:

I've also had a look at the accelerator linkage, but this doesn't seem
to have anything to do with it other than have a pivot on top of the
trans. I don't think it controls anything inside. That said, the kick
down is supposed to come through the accelerator pedal, so I'm still
looking.

#15

"andyv" <avevers (AT) fastmail (DOT) fm> wrote

On 15 Apr, 09:53, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d... (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

In article <1o9Fl.13499$OO7.8... (AT) text (DOT) news.virginmedia.com>, Mrcheerful

nbk... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Sorry, outlook distress has stopped indenting :-(

..

No grating sounds like it wasn't engaged properly. But what was
noticeable was a gurgling sound like the TC was only half full of
fluid. This suggests either a blockage so fluid isn't getting through
or the pump isn't working.
------------------------------------------------------------------

No, the converter will always drain down to half full when stationary, it's
a normal feature of all the autoboxes I've come across. It fills in a few
seconds after you start the engine. On a Chrysler box it fills best in
neutral and not park. have you tried this? Also you may need to move the
selector through the full range slowly to purge air from the valve block.

Go and try again, is there enough fluid in it, remember that fluid level is
checked (normally) with engine running and box in neutral.

Sometimes the seals on the brake band and clutch pack actuators harden up
through age and leak resulting in a no drive situation - some additive for
autoboxes may help if the box is on its last legs.

Julian.

Julian.

#16

andyv wrote:

Quote:

I've had the engine out of my 79 VW camper to redo the oil seals.
Whilst out I also removed the torque converter of the automatic
transmission and did the seal in that too.

Now on reassembly, I have no drive. The torque converter has been
reconnected and spins OK with the engine running. Also I've checked
the fluid.

All I've done is slide the torque converter out off the 3 sets of
concentric splines, do the seal then slide it back. As far as I could
tell it all re-engaged and was spinning freely before I bolted it up
to the drive plate, but I wonder if there is some special procedure
for refitting?

Does anybody have experience of this set up - it's an 090
transmission, code NE.

I hate to point you at it, but this sounds exactly like your problem:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4202469

#17

andyv wrote:

Quote:

I've had the engine out of my 79 VW camper to redo the oil seals.
Whilst out I also removed the torque converter of the automatic
transmission and did the seal in that too.

Now on reassembly, I have no drive. The torque converter has been
reconnected and spins OK with the engine running. Also I've checked
the fluid.

All I've done is slide the torque converter out off the 3 sets of
concentric splines, do the seal then slide it back. As far as I could
tell it all re-engaged and was spinning freely before I bolted it up
to the drive plate, but I wonder if there is some special procedure
for refitting?

Does anybody have experience of this set up - it's an 090
transmission, code NE.

this sound possible?
"
If the converter isn't indexed into the pump gears properly upon trans or
engine installation there isn't enough room for the converter. Meaning
negitive clearance when there should be "some" clearance.

Tightening up the engine to trans bellhousing bolts preloads the torque
converter into the pump, pressing the pump gears into the pump with massive
amounts of force. Immediatly upon starting the pump gears either break up,
or the pump gears wear into the pump sending large quantities of metal
throughout the trans. First place is into the valve body to the pressure
regulator then the converter is charged, then the oil exits the converter
and flow through your cooler. When you try to put it in gear the oil is sent
into your clutch packs."

#18

In article <hZpFl.29916$uK2.19122 (AT) newsfe20 (DOT) ams2>,
Julian <jps (AT) supanet (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Don't know this box but on all the ones I've worked on the tangs which
drive the pump are so long that you'd not get the box bolted up if
they weren't engaged correctly.

I came across one like this. I don't know if it was the dogs not engaged
or the converter nose not sitting in the crank but the chumps concerned
had managed to get the (long) bellhousing bolts to start and just wound
them fully up regardless.

Crikey.

Quote:

This buckled the flex plate and the starter
would not engage the ring gear properly! No damage to the box however.

It never ceases to amaze me what some will do.

--
*Toilet stolen from police station. Cops have nothing to go on.

Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

#19

In article <rSqFl.14045$OO7.5524 (AT) text (DOT) news.virginmedia.com>,
Mrcheerful <nbkm57 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

andyv wrote:
I've had the engine out of my 79 VW camper to redo the oil seals.
Whilst out I also removed the torque converter of the automatic
transmission and did the seal in that too.

Now on reassembly, I have no drive. The torque converter has been
reconnected and spins OK with the engine running. Also I've checked
the fluid.

All I've done is slide the torque converter out off the 3 sets of
concentric splines, do the seal then slide it back. As far as I could
tell it all re-engaged and was spinning freely before I bolted it up
to the drive plate, but I wonder if there is some special procedure
for refitting?

Does anybody have experience of this set up - it's an 090
transmission, code NE.

I hate to point you at it, but this sounds exactly like your problem:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4202469

That sort of suggests the transmission was removed - and replaced - with
the TC in place. Not recommended, although plenty do it that way.

--
*Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

#20

On 15 Apr, 20:48, "Mrcheerful" <nbk... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

andyv wrote:
I've had the engine out of my 79 VW camper to redo the oil seals.
Whilst out I also removed the torque converter of the automatic
transmission and did the seal in that too.

Now on reassembly, I have no drive. *The torque converter has been
reconnected and spins OK with the engine running. Also I've checked
the fluid.

All I've done is slide the torque converter out off the 3 sets of
concentric splines, do the seal then slide it back. As far as I could
tell it all re-engaged and was spinning freely before I bolted it up
to the drive plate, but I wonder if there is some special procedure
for refitting?

Does anybody have experience of this set up - it's an 090
transmission, code NE.

I hate to point you at it, but this sounds exactly like your problem:http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4202469- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes some of this is familiar, but it's not been necessary to force
anything. It all fits and turns smoothly and there haven't been any
nasty snapping or grinding noises with the engine running.

However... when I was taking the engine out I did get it back a
couple of inches before I discovered where to unbolt the TC. Also on
putting it back and with the drive plate and TC still separate, there
was a bit of a clang which sounded like the drive plate getting stuck
then freeing itself. Don't know if that could have bent something.

It all worked fine before I pulled the engine so the fault is one of
my own doing, even though the box is probably fairly well worn.

to be continued....