Hello there, I was just wondering, nowadays there are so many
different types of maintenance free batteries, what are the
advantages/disadvantages of these competing technologies? Calcium,
Expanded Metal, etc.etc? how do each of these work?

I'm sure Burgerman would know this at the back of his hands. hehehe

Thanks guys.

Yep I do...

This is one of my sites...
www.optimabattery.co.uk

Basically all car bartteries are "starter" batteries (as against deep cycle
batteried)
These are designed to start engines, which means high starting currents
(Cranking Amps or Cold Cranking Amps = CA / CCA)
These are disharged by only about 5 percent on an average start, and charged
right back up again by the alternator.
To make BIG currents they use lots of thinn crap plate material with a thin
coating of a sort of lead "sponge" to give big surface areas sat in the
acid.
If you deep cycle these all the lead sponge stuff drops inj the bottom and
your battery is buggered...
Deep Cycle Batteries use solid lead thicker plates so that they can be
discharged to say 80 percent discharge regularly with little damage.
But these do not have the plate area to develop masses of amps needed to
turn over a cold diesel engine!

Acid spills! (so we "need" to fix it apparently!) There are two methods...
1, we turn acid into GEL (by adding silica gel xtals) but these types of
battery are for want of more space and time pretty crap performance.
2, we use whats called AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries! These are the
best by a country mile...
Basically it has all the advantages of a true acid battery but can be
sealed, non spill, etc.

Both wet acid, Gel, and AGM can be bought in both starter (high current
short duration) as well as Deep Cycle (Golf carts, Wheelchairs etc)

Now to confuse the situation a little SOME deep cycle batteries (Optima that
I sell, Hawker Odyssey and one or two clones) can also produce huge currents
as well as be safe to deep cycle or discharge deeply... This is because
both of these use pure lead plates, but very thin, and lots of them! The
physical strength for this comes from the fact that the Optimas are built
like a nicad, or capacitor and tightly rolled up into cylinder shapes rather
than trying to make a lot of flat plates fit in a box! Not sure how the
Hawker ones manage this... But they do.

They allow the battery to be "maintainance free" (less gassing when charged)
at the expence of longevity, and other performance criteria.
Batteries are a balancing act, with the "chemicals, additives, plate
materials" used as a fancy sounding advertising copy...

http://www.diy-nos.freeserve.co.uk/ More here... (by bill darden but I
copied it! Its all a bit american but all correct.)

There is much more to that squre thing under your bonnet than you think!


"Brian Su" <happyguy_spam_sux (AT) microsoft (DOT) com> wrote

In article <Zhtqc.12621$7S2.10801@newsfe1-win>,
Burgerman <burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote:
I've noticed that Optima don't give any better a warranty than the likes
of Halfords, despite the price?

--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" <dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk> wrote


Nope.
When batteries "fail" its invariably not actually a battery fault, but a
lack of understanding on the part of a user.
For example, a guy I know "cycled" his deep cycle batteries to dead flat
like ni-cads, because some expert told him he should!
His batteries lasted 10 cycles.... And that was an electric vehicle with
lots of them! It was his error. No batery problem, but how do you prove
this to a customer who is ignorant of the batteries requirements? And
optimas are typically used in "extreme" situations, as a desperate attempt
to cure a problem!

People buy an "optima" often because their battey "keeps going flat" either
when they leave it for 6 months over winter in a custom or race car or a
hardly ever used classioc (still connected running god knows what
immobilisers, alarms, etc), or because they have four tons of car hi fi
fitted and keep "deep cycling" their starter battery...

They fitted an optima to cure the original "problem". The real problem was
that they were either taking out more than putting in on the wrong type of
battery, or they allowed it to become discharged and sulphate. Easily seen
by the discolouration when you chop it open incidentally...

The red ones which can't deep cycled incidentally, are starter batteries.
So the warrantee is longer. Because the typical daily usage pattern is
known.
The Yellow ones are more of a problem... Its use is unknown, it could be
used in a powerchair like mine and heavily deep cycled daily. Less than a
year is the expected life in this situation.
On the other hand the same battery used in a reserve power, backup system
that lives on permenant float charge can be expected to be fine after 15
years.

In article <rjvqc.14$b4.3@newsfe1-win>,
Burgerman <burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote:
I once bought an AC Delco 'Freedom' battery for the old Rover, and its
warranty was 3 years in a car, or 1 if used for a golf buggy etc.
It made 3 years in the Rover - just. ;-)

--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Burgerman" <burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote


Out of interest, is there any way to rejuvenate a duff battery?

I've seen some tablets that are supposed to dissolve off the deposits on the
plates, but I'm not convinced.

Got a battery here that's pretty shot though, and after being on charge for
a while gets very hot, and boils electrolyte off quite a bit. Came out a car
that had been stood unused since last November, and I don't know what sort
of usage it had had before then either.

Apparently on date Tue, 18 May 2004 21:35:25 +0100, "Burgerman"
<burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> said:

Burger...

Are there any batteries that survive well in a "used from time to time during
summer" scenario?

"Stuffed" <merde (AT) theworld (DOT) com> wrote

Errr NO...
Once you killed it its buggered...





And you shouildnt be!


Boiled electrolyte = overcharging...
So its BUGGGGGGERERD.

<Questions (AT) quickwatchsales (DOT) com> wrote

All batteries sulphate if they are not FULLY charged. That does not mean
overcharged!
If its connected to a vehicle then it goes flatter faster because the cars
electrics, and electronics pull power out.

All batteries will deteriorate like this fast. Some faster than others...

A Caravan/boat type sunlight photocell charger should keep up though...

"Burgerman" <burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote

Suspected as much, arse.

Shame - I budgeted myself a set amount for buying and MOTing the car it came
in, and with 8 quid of that budget left, 3 quid for tablets seemed a better
idea than tryign to haggle 5 quid far a battery at the breakers, seeing as I
need a new liner in my mig too.
To be fair, well, no. It's buggered. Damn.