Apparently on date Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:20:48 +0100, "Carl Gibbs"
<cagmeister (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> said:

Lemme see. It's been quite some years since I've done road rallying, but you
had to keep to the speed limit and would get done for road traffic offences,
etc, if you broke the law, especially speeding?

HST, they didn't tend to enforce the speed limit in NLS roads, so I can't say
all were strictly law abiding once they got into the country lanes, but you had
enough time to get to the controls without actually speeding, in theory, so it
was usually a case of getting on with it early on and then taking it easy so as
not to show up too early as you'd have to have been speeding if you did.

The most amusing part was going through towns, etc, causing traffic jams by
being the slowest thing on that 30 road, despite maybe 400 bhp to play with.
Then there were special stages, which were more about handling than outright
speed IME but it's where the diesel would have to prove itself if you wanted to
get a decent placing.

Does it still work like that?

Albert T Cone wrote:


huh?

320d sport - 0-62 8.9, 50-75 7.2 (4th)
320i sport - 0-62 8.3, 50-75 8.7 (4th)

The 50-75 in 4th in the 320d is academic, in the petrol motor you'd use
third for an overtake. And people buy 320i for the 6 cyl refinement and
engine note. Cost restricted 3 series customers buy 316/318/320d,
performance buy 325/330, company drivers wanting a six buy 330d. 320d and
320i don't compete.

go take an RX8 for a test drive, you'll think Vtec was brilliant
afterwards...

Nom wrote:
For equal power diesels will generally be slower through the gears than
a petrol as they have a narrower power band.

I wouldn't, I'd change to whichever gear gave me post power, but most
diesel enthusiasts go on about this, even though as a comparison it's
worthless.

James

"Sales!" <Questions (AT) bargain-pricings (DOT) com> wrote

Yep. You'd be disqualified if you were excessively speeding.
Generally speed limit are only observed by event officials in non NSL areas,
but you often get the police patrolling about making sure you're not being a
menance. Got pulled over a few rallies ago for going to quick (apparently)
down a twisty NSL lane
jams!). Unfortunately the South is a highly PR sensitive area so you have
to be very careful about what we do. You'd be highly unlikely to get away
with 400bhp!! The norm is more or less standard 205 GTis, mk2 escorts and
Novas. and of course a few less popular choices like mine Events down
here are much more navigational based, with the nav's skill ultimately
deciding the result (although, as a driver, you need to be reasonably quick
and competant). You get the odd event that is mostly pre-plot, notably the
Carpetbagger that is probably the highlight of the ACSMCs (southern
championship) calender. Elsewhere (esp Wales), this is the norm and road
rallie are more like stage rallies. Most of the field would have fully
prep'd cars and there'd even be spectators out. You'd never get away with
that down here coz everyone is too miserable

A lot of the older generations go on about the good old days and how road
rallying is dying in the south (because of this swing to more navigational
based events), but as its all i have experienced i dont really care and just
go out there to have fun.

Apparently on date Sat, 1 May 2004 12:50:41 +0100, "Carl Gibbs"
<cagmeister (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> said:

So on the whole, driving enthusiastically for fun is generally quite a bit
faster and more daring than doing a road rally (well, the bits on the roads
are.) Figured that was your intent.

I've always felt this to be a difficult thing to prove, because the speed limit
is frequently higher than a safe speed so there is always going to be a
question of opinion.

Depending on the road, of course. It's not difficult to get up to speeds way
above NSL if you can see another competitor ahead tanking along at high speed,
because you have that much further to get rid of the speed when they come a
cropper. Course, ex-rally there could be a vicar on a moped burbling along
thinking about tomorrow's sermon, no fun to see that twenty yards ahead while
you are doing 85.

Realistically, if you can't spot the police, you wouldn't have spotted the
vicar, children crossing to the next field, etc, etc, so I'd have to put my
hand up and pay the fine, usually. Better to have actual sections for going
fast where there should be no pedestrians, if possible, which a road rally
isn't going to have on actual roads.

Fair enough. I mostly dabble with tracks instead now, and the restrictions are
about sound more than power, etc.

I guess you can't use sat nav?

Wales has some excellent mountainous roads, but I must admit I get scared of
sliding off a cliff on most of them.

That's the reason to do it all, I wholeheartedly agree.

"Sales!" <Questions (AT) bargain-pricings (DOT) com> wrote

It depends, on the NSL bits, you generally drive fairly quick depending on
how tight the time is, sometimes a bit too quick! But you have to have your
wits about you the whole time. Obviously it helps tha it goes on between
11pm and 5am, as theres not many people about and its easier to see them
coming.
Absolutely. The Police know whats going on so normally they just come out
to be seen and give the odd person a telling off (which happened to be me),
which is fair enough.
Theres is no direct restriction on power, but theres big restriction on what
you can actually do to a standard car and how modified a 'modified' car can
be. Also theres a 98dB sound limit. However if you could happily compete
in any standard car as long as it was below that limit. For example, in
Wales i've seen a Metro 6R4 on an entry list!
No
Indeed, spent an afternoon driving about the mountains last year during
Rally GB - trmendous fun!

Steve Firth wrote:
Of course I did !

I wasn't scrabbling around for anything - I specifically chose not to use
any technical terms. A technical explantion isn't any use to anyone.

Tim S Kemp wrote:
Yeah, Lordy says the same

Carl Gibbs wrote:
Eh ?

You can make 200bhp with lots of torque and bugger all revs, or lots of revs
and bugger all torque. How you do it, isn't relevent - it's still 200bhp !

Er, now you're just being stupid.

Using sensible figures - let's say 200bhp with 200Nm, and 150bhp with 300Nm.
The 200bhp car will offer more performance, because it has more power !

Yes, I already know that.

How many times are we gonna have this discussion ?

Stop this madness !

You know full well how it works, as do I - why are we arguing ?

Lets take your TD 205 for example. It makes 80bhp, and paploads of torque.
Now lets take a 120bhp car, with lots less torque. The 120bhp car will be
quicker, simply because it makes 50% more power ! You know this !

Rubbish. For the 150bhp to be quicker - it would either need a *VERY* wide
powerband, or the 200bhp car would need a *VERY* narrow powerband. In
practice, it's not gonna happen.