"AstraVanMan" <FuckOff (AT) WithThanks (DOT) com> wrote

Err no, well sorta. The TDDI as first used in the Focus was fords stab at
DI-ing the old endura DE engine (as per your Fester van) which to be honest
was quite poor. The 2litre duratec DI (115) engine in the new mondeo was
also designed in house by ford, and although slightly better was still poor.
Ford then admitted defeat and sent the 2litre unit to PSA for development.
PSA redesigned the combustion chamber, and added their own Siemens common
rail system to make it into the CI, and sent it back to Ford.

Ford then had a good look at the 2litre unit, then took the 1.8 Endura DE
block and the TDDI head basically copied what PSA had done as far as head
work, and then added Bosch's common rail technology to it. Result is the 115
(and laterly the 100) engines.

The block is almost exactly the same as it always was and dates back to the
original 1.6 unit. (they've only added a duplex chain and oil proof cover to
drive the fuel pump instead of rubber belt.)

Its still an 8 valve head and non cross flow design and rather dated. Its
also *all* iron contruction as was the original 1.6.

PSA are using an all alloy engine now with their 3rd gen HDI's in 1.4, and
1.6 forms.- both of which are usuing 16valve heads too.

Tim..

What's nice about driving a car that sounds like a tractor at idle?
What's nice about leaving a trail of soot behind you when driving with
'enthusiasm'? What's nice about having to change gear at 4,500rpm?
Agreed a derv with loads of low down push is probably more relaxing to
drive, but whoever said sporty cars had to be relaxing to drive ?!?
They're not even stealthy any more due to all the stick on tat.

My priorities may be different but it doesn't change most peoples
perception of the word 'sporty' - I have no problem with quick
diesels, but 'sporty' they are not and I really wish they'd stop
labelling them as such.

A

AstraVanMan wrote:
Nope.

AstraVanMan wrote:
Wouldn't really make any difference. 150bhp is 150bhp - unless one of the
pair was stupidly heavy, or had loonatic power curves or something, then
performance would be almost the same.

1.8 T GTi 150bhp, 134mph, 0-60 in 8.2

Yep

Adam M wrote:
If your car sounds like a tractor when you're inside it, then it's broken !
I don't give a crap what's going on outside.
Anyhow, I'm talking about performance Diesels here. 200+bhp Derv lumps,
certainly don't sound like a tractor at idle !!!!

If your car covers you in soot when you're inside it, then it's broken ! I
don't give a crap what's going on outside.

Everything. You make meaningful power through most of that range - 1500rpm
to 4000rpm for example. That's the same reason Turbo Petrol cars are such a
nice drive - wide powerband is a good thing !

You still only have 5 (or 6) gears to go through before you hit top speed.
It's no different to a petrol car.

Precisely.

Sporty cars ? The only properly sporty diesel I can think of, is the 180bhp
Seat Leon Cupra - only available on the continent though.

How do you know ? The only quick Diesel in circulation right now, is BMW's
3.0 lump. Once Pug's 2.7 becomes available, and Audi's new one (3.0 I
think), then you'll have something to compare it to. Mercedes have one on
the way too - or is it already here ?

What are you referring to here ? Underpowered shopping carts like the 150bhp
Golf, clearly aren't "sporty" whether they're Diesel or Petrol. You need a
heap more power before you start to get meaningful performance from a lardy
modern car.

AstraVanMan wrote:
read : Ford didn't have a decent diesel engine, and were totally incapable
of making one. Ford stumped up a bunch of money to co-pay for development of
Pug's new engine, and in return they get to use it.

As are all PSA dervs The 200bhp 2.7 V6 is reportedly excellent in the Jag

Nom wrote:
Depends on the size of the motors... But for the same RPM I reckon the
diseasel will have higher torque (as it'll probably develop max power at
4000 as opposed to 5500 for the petrol motor)

In article <c6l41r0dlh (AT) news1 (DOT) newsguy.com>, Nom (AT) Somewhere (DOT) Somewhere
says...
ISTR that it was the best performing, smoothest torquiest (not including
VR6/R32 varients, just the 4 pot GTi badged ones).
--
The poster formerly known as Skodapilot.
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Steve Firth wrote:
hmmm - autocar rated it as more refined than the BMW and the MB, more
economical too, if a little less powerful. Best all rounder.

Depends what you mean. The Shape of the torque curves would be quite
different. Comparing the vw 150BHp 1.8T petrol to the 150BHp 1.9T diesel
engines;
both produce about 100nm of torque at 1000rpm. The 1.8T rises to 150nm
at 2000rpm and 200nm at 3000rpm, where it remains until about 5000rpm,
before trailing off to about 150nm at 6750rpm.
The 1.9TDI rises to 200nm at 2000rpm, and 320nm at 3000rpm, however it
starts to trail off immediately above that, dropping to 250nm at 4500rpm
and then to 200nm at 5000rpm.

Between 1000rpm and 5000rpm, the diesel engine produces more power than
the petrol, and at 3000rpm it produces 60% more power than the petrol.
(in fact between 1000rpm and 4250rpm, even the 115BHp TDI produces more
power than the 1.8T petrol)

That said, the petrol engine _can_ be driven above 5000rpm, and if it's
kept up there, it will be as quick as the equivalently powerful diesel
(ignoring time lost to gearchanges and drivetrain non-linearities).

Diesels are quicker for most people in the real world because the power
is produced right in the middle of the rev range, however on track and
for performance figure measurements the most important factor is headline
power.