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Missed opportunity for Ford??
Cars Modifications Aspects of car modifications (tuning, styling) (uk.rec.cars.modifications)
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#51
 
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Re: Missed opportunity for Ford?? -
04-28-2004
, 04:12 AM
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"Audi's new A8 4.0 V8 TDI quattro, a car that will make even the most hardened petrol-head look at diesels in an entirely new light" ......except, it would seem, Steve Firth, who reckons all diesel drivers smell of wee-wee, LOL!!! |
I'd love to own a Diesel - unfortunately, all the ones making decent power
are still loony money
#52
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Engine noise was 1 example, and you're confusing the sound with noise - nothing novaesque about a nice V6 or V5 warble. |
My current 200bhp 2.0 4-cyl 16v Turbo Petrol car doesn't make a nice V6 or
V5 warble. I care about this much ||
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So you're not disputing soot production? |
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or lack of 'revvyness'? Both these eat into the fun factor if you ask me, and a 'sporty' (whatever that means) car is meant to be fun yes? |
For me, the opposite is true. The more you have to rev the engine, the less
fun it becomes - think VTec. A long hard drive becomes VERY tiresome after
the novelty wears off.
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Anyway I digress, my original opinion stands - Sporty diesels, aren't. |
Do you think the 150bhp Diesel Golf is less sporty than it's 150bhp Petrol
counterpart ?
Do you think the 180bhp Diesel A4 is less sporty than it's 180bhp Petrol
counterpart ?
#53
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Nom <Nom (AT) Somewhere (DOT) Somewhere> wrote: [Pug diseasels] The 200bhp 2.7 V6 is reportedly excellent in the Jag Where "excellent" means "a long way behind the competition". The Jag finished third to the BMW and Audi (again) in the last round of magazine reviews. |
2.7 V6 Derv lump (in the Jag), say it's very nice indeed !
#54
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Never had a diesel leave even my truck for dead, let alone my car. And the mpg comment just proves the point that they are for elderly cardigan wearers. BTW, you can have moderately fast (OK, slow) diesels or one can have economical (OK very, very slow) diesels, but one cannot have a diesel matching the performance of even quite a modest petrol car and returning 50mpg. |
powerful petrol car. However a diesel will outperform an equivalently
powerful petrol car, and so the actual economy ratio is anything between
50-60%, in favour of the diesel.
I don't know what your truck or your car are, but the vast majority of the
cars on the road would be left for dead by a BMW 330d, and most by a golf
TDI 130/150.
#55
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Err no, well sorta. The TDDI as first used in the Focus was fords stab at DI-ing the old endura DE engine (as per your Fester van) which to be honest was quite poor. It wasn't the greatest, but a big improvement on the Endura-DE. One big design improvement was making the water pump driven by the aux drivebelt instead of the cambelt, enabling a much more reliable extended cambelt interval (though I would never trust any engine with the same belt on for 100k!). Anyway, I've rattled on enough about how reasonably good the Endura-DI is(!), so let's move this on. |
but I have seen afew (admittedly plod) vehiles where failure has occured
before this- one hadnt done 50k. Belt breakage still results in a snapped
cam, cracked head, bent valves and or broken guides- so not good.
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The 2litre duratec DI (115) engine in the new mondeo was also designed in house by ford, and although slightly better was still poor. I thought the 115bhp and 130bhp diesels in the new mondeos were both TDCis. |
In the mk 2 new mondeo yes, both are CI's. The first incarnation was a DI
though.
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Ford then admitted defeat and sent the 2litre unit to PSA for development. PSA redesigned the combustion chamber, and added their own Siemens common rail system to make it into the CI, and sent it back to Ford. Ford then had a good look at the 2litre unit, then took the 1.8 Endura DE block and the TDDI head basically copied what PSA had done as far as head work, and then added Bosch's common rail technology to it. Result is the 115 (and laterly the 100) engines. Ah, so the 1.8TDCi doesn't have as much French design (more imitation of French design) as the 1.4 and 2.0 engines then? |
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The block is almost exactly the same as it always was and dates back to the original 1.6 unit. (they've only added a duplex chain and oil proof cover to drive the fuel pump instead of rubber belt.) The 1,8TDCi is chain driven? Good stuff. Its still an 8 valve head and non cross flow design and rather dated. Its also *all* iron contruction as was the original 1.6. As in the old 1.6D engine in Mk2 Fiesta and Mk3 Escorts? |
Tim..
#56
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What Sporty diesels are you thinking of ? Do you think the 150bhp Diesel Golf is less sporty than it's 150bhp Petrol counterpart ? Do you think the 180bhp Diesel A4 is less sporty than it's 180bhp Petrol counterpart ? |
--
Dan
http://www.danontherun.com
#57
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Steve Firth wrote: Nom <Nom (AT) Somewhere (DOT) Somewhere> wrote: [Pug diseasels] The 200bhp 2.7 V6 is reportedly excellent in the Jag Where "excellent" means "a long way behind the competition". The Jag finished third to the BMW and Audi (again) in the last round of magazine reviews. I'm talking about the engine, not the car. All the reviews I've read, of the 2.7 V6 Derv lump (in the Jag), say it's very nice indeed ! |
?--
Dan
http://www.danontherun.com
#58
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"Carl Gibbs" <cagmeister (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:c6mfjb$dcn57$1 (AT) ID-166528 (DOT) news.uni-berlin.de... "Tim S Kemp" <news (AT) timkemp (DOT) karoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:hFOdnU6LX644IhPdSa8jmw (AT) karoo (DOT) co.uk... AstraVanMan wrote: E320 CDi 204 hp, 0-60 in 7.9 and 145mph, isnt shabby, plus with a chip I expect a lot of bhp n torque. sorry thats the estate figures, 151mph and 7.5 secs, thats brilliant for a heavy ass car like that. Well my Audi doesn't quite come up to that, but it does have 140bhp, quite a bit of torque, does 0-60 in 9.9 seconds and a top speed of 130mph. And if you sit at 60mph it'll do 60mpg. A recent tankful of fuel, including about 70% at 3-figure motorway speeds, plus lots of quick back-road hooning, returned an average of 40mpg. Audi have the fastest diesel I think, 0-60 6.7, max 155 limited 275bhp/3750 478lbft/1800 http://www.fleetnewsnet.co.uk/roadte...e=164&articlei d=30172 Doesnt the big Toureg thing have similar performance? No. Oddly enough neither does the phaeton with the tuareg V10. Heavier cars! I just remember breifly flicking through Autocar 0-100-0 trials a few days |
it was in the 6s region for the 0-60 time.
#59
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Cant believe i missed this thread! Having just done another road rally in a 205 diesel, i can say without a doubt that diesels are far far better than the equivelent petrol engine. Mines not quite quick enough to keep up with a GTi at the mo though, but as long as the insurance company dont moan too much, it'll be getting closer by the end of the summer... If you define sporty on how a car sounds, then you're no better than a max-power-Nova-driving-turd-burgler. If a TDi engine can produce enough power to make a car quick then why the hell not use it? As long as its bolted to a decent chassis and decent suspension (ie not a Golf ) thenit can be sporty. Just remember about the extra weight in the front, as i seem to have worn out a set of pads in one night  Definately need those vented discs!!!...great example - road rally is just like real road driving conditions isn't it?  |
like real road driving conditions actually.
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Engine noise was 1 example, and you're confusing the sound with noise - nothing novaesque about a nice V6 or V5 warble. |
nimble, dont give a shit what noise it makes. If i wanted something that
made a nice noise i would buy an SD1 and remove the silencers. Makes a V5/6
sound like a diesel
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So you're not disputing soot production? or lack of 'revvyness'? Both these eat into the fun factor if you ask me, and a 'sporty' (whatever that means) car is meant to be fun yes? |
wouldnt notice it. And they're not that bad anyway. Mine revs to 5k
happily (and beyond) - i've had petrol cars that wouldnt reach that!
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Vented discs wont reduce pad wear, you need proper brakes with sensible sized discs and calipers for the application. I'm sure the Pug 205 derv wasn't designed with blatting around a track in mind. |
(significant changed of the other petrol models), so actually it is very
well equipped as standard.
My problem was that the pads (or maybe the fluid) over heated very very
quickly, and now the friction material is shagged (not worn in terms of lack
of pad material). Serves me right for getting cheap pads. A swap to vented
discs (and M1144 pads and decent fluid) will be more than adequate as its
what a similarly weighted GTi will have.
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We agree on one thing, Golf MKIV suspension/chassis combo sucks |
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Anyway I digress, my original opinion stands - Sporty diesels, aren't. Don't recall every saying diesels couldn't match on power alone. |
want noise and revs get a bike or a bike engined kit car.
I'll continue using my 'non sporty' diesel for another year or so and will
be quite happy!
#60
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Steve Firth wrote: Never had a diesel leave even my truck for dead, let alone my car. And how many decent Diesel engines have you encountered ? As I said in my other post, the number of decent performance (ie, 200bhp+) Diesel engines can be counted on your fingers ! Unless your truck/car make loony power, I find it very hard to beleive you can keep up with the new BMW 330d ! |
feet from any speed. All the other vehicles he sees are driven by fuckwits who
shouldn't be on the road.
Once you exclude those, his truck is easily the fastest, because there isn't
anything else on the roads he drives about on.
It's obvious to the rest of us that a diesel engine is inherently more
efficient than a petrol one, but usually weighs more and has less power. Where
the power to weight of the vehicle is higher, it will obviously be quicker, I
can't see a problem with some diesels being faster than some petrol cars.
But I haven't seen many diesel motorbikes as yet.
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