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Nitrous(N20) / Nitrox(EANx)
Cars Modifications Aspects of car modifications (tuning, styling) (uk.rec.cars.modifications)
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#1
 
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Nitrous(N20) / Nitrox(EANx) -
05-10-2004
, 10:01 AM
#2
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Anyone able to take it from here? Byrgerman, where are you wehn we need you. |
Carl Robson
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
#3
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Now here's a thought. There's a lot made about fitting Nitrous Kits to cars to boost the performance. The idea behind it being (apologies if I'm wrong) the added gas, Nitrous Oxide (N20), and the higher O2 contect in the air (36%) when mixed with the correct fuel, gives more power. Plus the cooling effect of the pressurised air stops the engine from cooking itself. Now how about instead of using Nitrox oxide we use Oxygen Enriched Air, (EANx or Nitrox, as used by scuba-divers). Would it work? it would certainly be cheaper (15Litre 36% O2 approx £5) and availablilty would be far better (just go to your local dive shop!). Now I need someone to calculate if it'll work. Here's what I think I know so far. N2O is a combined particle, 2 molecules nitrogen to 1 Oxygen. EANx is a combination of N2 plus O2. That is the molecules are bonded differently. Anyone able to take it from here? |
know, a mixture of N2 and O2 would be murder to insure. The thing is, N2O
doesn't split up into nitrogen and oxygen unless it's at 400 degrees or so,
whereas having lots of o2 just floating around is rather asking for fires to
start, if the system's at all leaky. If your car catches fire and the tank
ruptures, eventually n2o will start burning, but by the time temperatures
get to that point you should be well away, but if your car catches fire and
you've got o2 leaking, it'll go up much more quickly than it would in the
normal atmosphere. I know which car I'd sooner crash.
#4
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| Jezza wrote: Now here's a thought. There's a lot made about fitting Nitrous Kits to cars to boost the performance. The idea behind it being (apologies if I'm wrong) the added gas, Nitrous Oxide (N20), and the higher O2 contect in the air (36%) when mixed with the correct fuel, gives more power. Plus the cooling effect of the pressurised air stops the engine from cooking itself. Now how about instead of using Nitrox oxide we use Oxygen Enriched Air, (EANx or Nitrox, as used by scuba-divers). Would it work? it would certainly be cheaper (15Litre 36% O2 approx £5) and availablilty would be far better (just go to your local dive shop!). Now I need someone to calculate if it'll work. Here's what I think I know so far. N2O is a combined particle, 2 molecules nitrogen to 1 Oxygen. EANx is a combination of N2 plus O2. That is the molecules are bonded differently. They're not bonded at all just mixed. N2 and O2 are independent, unless my |
Quote:
| Anyone able to take it from here? Safety would be your main problem. It's hard to get N2O insured as far as I know, a mixture of N2 and O2 would be murder to insure. The thing is, N2O doesn't split up into nitrogen and oxygen unless it's at 400 degrees or so, whereas having lots of o2 just floating around is rather asking for fires to start, if the system's at all leaky. If your car catches fire and the tank ruptures, eventually n2o will start burning, but by the time temperatures get to that point you should be well away, but if your car catches fire and you've got o2 leaking, it'll go up much more quickly than it would in the normal atmosphere. I know which car I'd sooner crash. Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the |
#5
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"Doki" <doki (AT) spamtroNspidar (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1084198826.31237.0 (AT) despina (DOT) uk.clara.net... Jezza wrote: Now here's a thought. There's a lot made about fitting Nitrous Kits to cars to boost the performance. The idea behind it being (apologies if I'm wrong) the added gas, Nitrous Oxide (N20), and the higher O2 contect in the air (36%) when mixed with the correct fuel, gives more power. Plus the cooling effect of the pressurised air stops the engine from cooking itself. Now how about instead of using Nitrox oxide we use Oxygen Enriched Air, (EANx or Nitrox, as used by scuba-divers). Would it work? it would certainly be cheaper (15Litre 36% O2 approx £5) and availablilty would be far better (just go to your local dive shop!). Now I need someone to calculate if it'll work. Here's what I think I know so far. N2O is a combined particle, 2 molecules nitrogen to 1 Oxygen. EANx is a combination of N2 plus O2. That is the molecules are bonded differently. They're not bonded at all just mixed. N2 and O2 are independent, unless my cse chemistry is wasted. |
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Anyone able to take it from here? Safety would be your main problem. It's hard to get N2O insured as far as I know, a mixture of N2 and O2 would be murder to insure. The thing is, N2O doesn't split up into nitrogen and oxygen unless it's at 400 degrees or so, whereas having lots of o2 just floating around is rather asking for fires to start, if the system's at all leaky. If your car catches fire and the tank ruptures, eventually n2o will start burning, but by the time temperatures get to that point you should be well away, but if your car catches fire and you've got o2 leaking, it'll go up much more quickly than it would in the normal atmosphere. I know which car I'd sooner crash. Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well. |
what I remember from chem / physics is right. Theoretically you could use n2
/ o2 mix, but volumetric efficiency isn't really the problem with nitrous.
You can get as much oxygen and fuel as you could possibly want in there with
nitrous, but the engine's going to break eventually if you make stupid
amounts of power.
#6
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Johnny wrote: Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well. Whether it's a gas or liquid depends on pressure / volume and temperature if what I remember from chem / physics is right. Theoretically you could use n2 / o2 mix, but volumetric efficiency isn't really the problem with nitrous. You can get as much oxygen and fuel as you could possibly want in there with nitrous, but the engine's going to break eventually if you make stupid amounts of power. |
. I'veonly read his webpage a few times, but he seems to know everything there is
to know on Nitrous.
#7
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Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well. |
tend to be more comprisable than liquids (have a look on Burgerman's site about
(iirc) positioning the jets and solenoids as he has a quick run over the
possible problems of the N2O being gaseous.
#8
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| Doki wrote: Johnny wrote: Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well. Whether it's a gas or liquid depends on pressure / volume and temperature if what I remember from chem / physics is right. Theoretically you could use n2 / o2 mix, but volumetric efficiency isn't really the problem with nitrous. You can get as much oxygen and fuel as you could possibly want in there with nitrous, but the engine's going to break eventually if you make stupid amounts of power. BTW, Burgerman might turn up and tell me I've been talking shite . I'veonly read his webpage a few times, but he seems to know everything there is to know on Nitrous. Liquid just means many, many more molecules per unit volume than gas, |
Obviously as soon as that pressure is released it'll boil to gas or whatever
it's properties dictate. Wouldn't fancy a bottle of liquid oxygen in the
boot though.
#9
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"Doki" <doki (AT) spamtroNspidar (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1084203354.33735.0 (AT) despina (DOT) uk.clara.net... Doki wrote: Johnny wrote: Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well. Whether it's a gas or liquid depends on pressure / volume and temperature if what I remember from chem / physics is right. Theoretically you could use n2 / o2 mix, but volumetric efficiency isn't really the problem with nitrous. You can get as much oxygen and fuel as you could possibly want in there with nitrous, but the engine's going to break eventually if you make stupid amounts of power. BTW, Burgerman might turn up and tell me I've been talking shite . I'veonly read his webpage a few times, but he seems to know everything there is to know on Nitrous. Liquid just means many, many more molecules per unit volume than gas, determined by the temperature or more practically pressure its stored at. Obviously as soon as that pressure is released it'll boil to gas or whatever it's properties dictate. Wouldn't fancy a bottle of liquid oxygen in the boot though. |
from the surroundings cooling the intake air mailing it more dense, this is also
a good thing when it comes to engines.
#10
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"Johnny" <repro007 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:2g9n3hF9u56U1 (AT) uni-berlin (DOT) de... "Doki" <doki (AT) spamtroNspidar (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1084203354.33735.0 (AT) despina (DOT) uk.clara.net... Doki wrote: Johnny wrote: Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well. Whether it's a gas or liquid depends on pressure / volume and temperature if what I remember from chem / physics is right. Theoretically you could use n2 / o2 mix, but volumetric efficiency isn't really the problem with nitrous. You can get as much oxygen and fuel as you could possibly want in there with nitrous, but the engine's going to break eventually if you make stupid amounts of power. BTW, Burgerman might turn up and tell me I've been talking shite .I've only read his webpage a few times, but he seems to know everything there is to know on Nitrous. Liquid just means many, many more molecules per unit volume than gas, determined by the temperature or more practically pressure its stored at. Obviously as soon as that pressure is released it'll boil to gas or whatever it's properties dictate. Wouldn't fancy a bottle of liquid oxygen in the boot though. When it goes through that phase change from liquid to gas it absorbs energy from the surroundings cooling the intake air mailing it more dense, this is also a good thing when it comes to engines. Yeah I'm really new to nitrous and trying to learn as much as I can as |
Would these obvious changes to the air density in the combustion chamber
have any knock on effect to the existing fuel system in my car? It has a
monitored fuel supply dictated by sensors that measure various parameters (I
wish I could be more specific). The ECU makes checks and adjustments many
times a second and I still can't fathom how introducing nitrous oxide and
extra fuel might affect this monitoring and the existing injected fuel
supply if at all.
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