In news:N6QWh.9024$M_3.3188 (AT) newsfe1-gui (DOT) ntli.net,
Burgerman <burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wittered on forthwith;
F1 cars are normally aspirated and around 3 litre, they produce max power at
something stupid like 17k rpm..


--
Pete M - Using the Scouse Side of the Force -
Golf GTi Mk2 (2.0 transplant in progress),
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)
OMF#9

Currently listening to The White Stripes

"Pete M" <pete.murray (AT) bogoffwithzepressedmeatblueyonder (DOT) co.uk> wrote in
message news:f0gobo$j1l$1 (AT) registered (DOT) motzarella.org...
2.5l V8s aren't they now? And isn't 19krpm the max the rules allow? Last
season some of them were going over 20krpm...

--
Dan

"Elder" <carl.robson (AT) bouncing-czechs (DOT) com> wrote

Even I think that's awesome. Revs are fantastic.

--
Dan

Depresion wrote:

That's what I was thinking - it's very close to diesel territory. Makes
you wonder what kind of glow plugs he's running.

--
'89 Mazda RX-7 Convertible
'92 Mazda RX-7

In article <xn0f5agg61pfqu001 (AT) nermal (DOT) unix-consult.com>,
tnewsSPAMMENOT (AT) unixconsult (DOT) co.uk says...
17/1 is not possible. Compression over 13/1 and such RPM impose a very
big overlap on the camshafts, resulting in a very narrow powerband high
up. No way that such an engine, the more on TB's, idles lower than 5000
RMP.

His dynochart, bumpy beyond dreams, gives a wide powerband. 412 Hp is
not possible for that kind of engine. Greek dyno suffers severly from
heat and goodwill. If not: that Greek is now employed by either
Cosworth, Ilmor or the motorbike race departement where he nicked the
fuel from (but then he would not be Greek but Japanese).

Look at the rad: standard MK2 Escort item, impossible that even on short
runs that dissipates 1000-1200 HP in heat. 1200 Hp heat at low speed on
such a radiator (a rallye-car lives below 100 mph) is called a grenade.

Moneywise now: 4 pistons (3000 UKP), new rods (those are not Carillo's
nor titanium, 1000 UKP), billet crankshaft (7000 UKP), specific
camshafts (1000 UK), headwork and valves (3000 UKP), ecu (2000 UKP).
Getting everything first time right won't be a problem for our Greek,
but still it stays an engine worth a lot of cash with an estimated
lifetime of 40 hours... and that fits as a glove in a oldtimer-rallye
car worth 2 kUPD? Of course, Sir, they all do that around there, the
trofee is worth that kind of money (every racer has his caves filled
with those)

BTCC 2l (like the Williams Laguna's, TWR Volvo's) on TB's were at 300 HP
with serious budgets. Now a Greek with no budget (see the rest of the
car) will surpass specialised manufacturers on that scale? Yeah, in your
wildest Greek dreams.

With all respect to the NA Cosworth's: most struggle to break the 300
Hp-barrier. Realistic view about the engine and if the top-RPM is
correct: 280-300 HP at the crank and below 7000 RPM nada (okay: 50 Hp)

Tom De Moor

"Tom De Moor" <viperengine (AT) removethis (DOT) gmail.com> wrote

It is - ask many drag bike owners, They use 24v off board starters to fire
them up too.



Compression over 13/1 and such RPM impose a very
Big compression alone helps pumping efficiency. Large overlap as you sugest
need not be as large as you think.
And while the idle may be rather lumpy and uneven it wouldnt be anyhing like
5k. 2.5 maybe.



The "bumpy" whilst real data comes from a combination of things. The main
one being that the car was bouncing and rocking slightly during the run.
Many cars do this on the odd dyno run. The next run would have given a
smooth curve most likely and been more accurate. But this one is higher in
the peaks so he kept t!

The other thing that causes peaks and troughs is tunede length air boxes,
exhausts etc. They help at some rpms and harmonics of them and hinder in the
opposite places.

gives a wide powerband. 412 Hp is
Its severely difficult to believe!!! a third of it undoubtedly is in the
peaks on the graph caused by the possible rocking on the chassis dyno.


Greek dyno suffers severly from

that sentence made no sense.




Stock smooth running quiet civilised production bikes are doing 170bhp per
litre remember. And 147 rear wheel... Thats 300 from 2 litres prodution and
emmision controlled.AT THE WHEEL.



Now a Greek with no budget (see the rest of the
aGREED.


yep, with bigger bores than the 1 litre bike engines 150 bhp per litre is
about the best they can be expected to do.


Realistic view about the engine and if the top-RPM is
I dont believe it does those revs. I suspect "calculated or grabbed" rpm on
the dyno and no proper electrical hookup.

On 23 Apr, 01:56, usenet-u... (AT) malloc (DOT) co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:


Just out of interest, why do the govening body regulate the design of
the engine - I understand the max. displacement, but why would they
limit it to 90 degrees?

<conkersack (AT) googlemail (DOT) com> wrote:

It may be a weight distribution thing. In the past some F1 "V"
geometries have been close to flat. This obviously gets the weight lower
down than is possible in a 90 degree layout and improves handling.

"Steve Firth" <usenet-urcm (AT) malloc (DOT) co.uk> wrote

Ah. The V10s have all gone now haven't they? I thought for the new 'engine
sealed for the next two years' rule or whatever it is to stop development,
they all had to be limited? I may be talking cock though.

--
Dan

In article <lXZWh.3030$C75.1387 (AT) newsfe2-gui (DOT) ntli.net>,
burgerman (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com says...


Yes but they do not run semi-standard or racing fuel. They run nitro-
methane or alcohol blended with rather high portions of toluene.

Further more: a drag engine cannot be compared to an engine which must
deliver its full power longer than 1 minute.

I modified several engines for endurance racing where top power and
reliability over 24 hrs were the top specs.

Normal engines carry an overlap around 240 degrees, we used up to 310
degrees. The high idle is there to prevent spit-back. It wouldn't idle
under 5000 RPM. Powerband was 2 k RPM.



400 Hp , he must cool 3 times that amount = 1200 Hp.

No way that the radiator is capable to dissipate such amounts, even more
because the speed (and thus cooling) stays low.

Most bikes engines (we race the Yamaha R6 in a 4-wheel spaceframe) need
5 to 8 times the cooling capacity of the bike because the power is used
all the time, this at fairly low speed and for heats no longer than 10
minutes. Once a year we drive an "endurance" (2 Hr): the only thing we
change is doubling the cooling.


As you once said - and what I agree upon-: a production bike engine is
fucking state-of-the-art racing-engine you can buy and drive on the
street.

Reliabilty, cooling and material tension however are not at par with car
engines. The ECU of the new R6 gives headaches: 8 injectors, valves in
exhaust, etc. All good wished to Cosworth but that engine is miles from
the technical refinements of bike-engine producing over 150 Hp/l.

The revs are possible, the power isn't but then it might be that in
Greece power units are defined somewhat otherwise.

I've just been in Italy for work: they have special way of thinking.

Me: there is no warm water.
Hotel-owner: there is, Sir, but it's broken.
Me: There is no wireless-internet!
Hotel-owner: Yes Sir there is, but we have not paid the fee. So it
doesn't work.
Me: Where is the roomservice and the bar?
Hotel-owner: Room service is sick, the bar is there and working.

The bugger "forgot" to tell that indeed there was a mini-bar but it was
empty...

I have seen more things broken in 3 days than in my whole life, nothing
was straight.

Best thing, second morning: "Sir: tha warm water issa made".

Yeah: if I had thrown in a lobster, it was instantely boiled...

And this was a "excellent" hotel, charging 185 Eur per night for a
single room 3m x 4m and a small bathroom (not working shower and
toilet)!

If one is a good swimmer, you cross the sea ant it's Greece on the other
side ;-)!

Tom De Moor