Fortune http://doiop.com/1a9c7k

GM, Ford and Chrysler sell more pickups than do they anything else,
more than two million a year in good times.

...the sales data reported May 1 that pickup trucks have hit the skids
is seriously bad news... Without these reliable profit generators, the
business model for domestic auto producers in North American doesn't
work. Passenger cars, under ferocious foreign assault, are a breakeven
proposition at best and sales of formerly lucrative SUVs are falling
faster than Spider-Man without his web.

For General Motors...the drop is a cruel blow to its plans to turn
around North American operations - and may force it to scale back its
assumptions about the business going forward. Despite incentives of up
to $2,000 per unit, Silverado sales fell 7.2 percent in April.

Ford is fighting to protect the F-series with a new advertising
campaign touting its durability in crash tests. But the collapse in the
showroom digs an even deeper hole for the automaker. F-series sales are
down 13.7 percent so far in 2007. At up-for-sale Chrysler, meanwhile,
Dodge Ram sales are holding steady but only thanks to incentives that
climb as high as $5,000 per vehicle...

On May 2, 4:40 pm, Nomen Nescio <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-
Header@[127.1]> wrote:

So -- when does this fall off in sales translate to salesmen actually
wanting to sell a truck?? Would seem to me that if your sales are in
the toilet, you'd do something to generate sales -- but I guess
Detroit hasn't figured that out yet.

I'm in the market for a plain jane truck. Went to three Ford dealers
yesterday -- same tired old shit -- every truck on the lot is loaded
up with junk that I don't want. If I want leather seats, hot and cold
running water, and power everything, I'll buy a luxury car. I want
an F-150, small V8, auto, AM/FM/CD, pwr steering and brakes, 8-foot
bed -- impossible. Of course, if I want a King Ranch diesel Crew Cab
with every possible option, goddam if there's not a dozen of them on
the lot.

Then there's the sales people -- they won't listen to you -- just
keep trying to push you into something that's more and more expensive
all the while giving out the "got to talk to the sales manager"
bullshit.

Of course, Chevy, GMC, Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan are no different.

"Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names" <PopUlist349 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:1178273733.564830.79060 (AT) y5g2000hsa (DOT) googlegroups.com...
I don't know where you are, but last year when I was shopping for a
pick-up for my farm none of the Ford dealers had any trouble finding a
stripped work truck. I just looked at the inventory of the closest
Ford dealer and he has many in stock. If you really want a Ford, go to
www.fordvehicles.com and build an F-150 like you want and then search
the local inventory for a close match. I just input your request into
the website and one dealer had over 200 close matches. They had over
100 exact matches. Price before taxes and taxes, but after rebates was
less than $17K.

Ed

On 4 May 2007 03:15:33 -0700, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
<PopUlist349 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:


I know were you are coming from. When I bought a new truck in 2000
even then I had a hard time finding a plain jane truck and it is even
harder today. I breifly was looking at some 2006 models from GM that
were 10K off sticker to replace mine but nothing out there had what I
wanted. Most of all I hate that "push and pray" 4x4 drive select
button that has mostly become the defacto standard (for 07 it is now
"twist and pray") I suspect I will keep mine for several more years
unless they start building real plain jane work P/U's again. I buy
them to do work, not to impress anyone or as a daily driver to replace
a car and when it is not making money or doing a task that it is
truely needed for it is parked and I am driving around in a 4 cyl
using less than 1/2 the fuel too.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

In article <e5am33lf1n9qcpjt5435rsgdrvbbks1ip6 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
SnoMan <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote:

Yet you have no problem slamming Dodge for totally eliminating
that which you hate.

You -are- full of contradictions.

"Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names" <PopUlist349 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

considered essential to torment your customers. The dealers always believed
in business as usual at all costs. I don't understand it either. They're
crazy. I won't ever go to a dealership unless it's closed! I'd probably
buy a new car every year if they weren't so awful. As it is, I just have
too much self-respect, and I never buy any.
But remember the dealers aren't really under the control of Ford and GM.
Ford may be dying a grisly death, but it's not like they can tell their
dealers what to do. The dealers will have to act out of enlightened
self-interest. It's not Ford that's insane about that particular issue,
it's the dealers.

At my company we treat our customers like gold. We're scared not to.

On Fri, 04 May 2007 09:34:19 -0500, aarcuda69062
<nonelson (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote:


No I am not, your are! I like MANUALLY controlled transfer cases not
servo controlled one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no
abilty to disconnect front axle differentail (like Dodge) to save a
few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra
fuel costs over life of vehicle. If shifting a Tcase manually or maybe
even having to engage hubs (like I did for many years) is too much for
you then get a 2wd. Given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse
to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. None! It
is strictly a profit thing and nothin more. Dodge could have had
lockout hubs easily added to the new AAM axle they started using in
2003 on HD pickups but it was cheaper to leave them off and use the
bastard hub/bearing design that they use instead and let consumer pay
for folly unknowingly. Make no mistake it is costing you MPG and more
than you think. I could always tell when my hubs or diff was not
disconnected in 2wd because it did not roll/coast as well but on a
Dodge it is "normal" to have it drag all the time so you do not know
any better other than wonder why your MPG sucks at times.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

In article <89rn33tkdnnjgvitarau04cksb0ltcoh5r (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
SnoMan <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote:

Every late model Dodge Ram 4X4 I've seen has a transfer case
shift lever. No servo.

Axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded.
They also leave the differential gears spinning inside the
differential case causing wear. Real lock out hubs might be a
good compromise, but they also can fail leaving you
stranded/stuck/wishing.

I've never owned anything but manually shifted transfer cases.

Your -opinion-.

Another one of your opinions.

Again, opinion. And as for "unknowingly," you think it's some
deep dark secret?

It's not costing me anything.

Funny, my friend just returned from a trip to Colorado in his 04
ram 2500 diesel, pulling a trailer with 4 passengers, he averaged
20 mpg not to mention 30 cents a gallon cheaper for diesel fuel
vs. gasoline.
Same trip when he had a 2000 Ram 2500 gas 5.9, he'd get at best
11 mpg and be wheezing up the mountains... don't forget, the
2000 had front axle disconnect.

Post something factual, not your usual anti-Dodge/diesel snobbery
that is totally based on emotion instead of fact.

As for your "thousands extra in fuel costs," check what the
going rate is to repair late model Ford lock outs and get back to
me, okay?

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote



Having driven 5 4x4 trucks with manual lockout front hubs to over 200,000
miles each, many of those off road using the 4x4, I have never had a hub
failure. What are you talking about?

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote

Then I guess that you don't get out much.

Really??? How???

Again, how???

But that doesn't mean that they don't exist. My buddies Ford has a switch
on the dash and IIRC, Tom L also has a switch for the 4WD on his DODGE.

I would say the opinion of many.

Then what is the real reason?

It doesn't have to be a deap dark secret for people not to be aware of it.

Is this the best that you can do? You are comparing apples to oranges here.
At least if the two trucks had the same engine you could actually be making
a point but here....

What does this particular post have to do with diesels?

What makes you think that they are going to fail? How much is a replacement
rear axle bearing for a late model Dodge 2500? How much will it cost to
repair / replace a transfer case and due to that cost, should we all be
driving 2WD's?

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving