I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.
Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a
license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online
with no such requirement.

Questions:
Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff?

How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be
the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans.
I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges
will not work with the newer valves.

What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system
thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to
use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar
product to recharge the system.

Any suggestions?

Thanks


Tony

In article <gp89d1p5kik822c8toiic18h4n6hbt4m7o (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>,
tom <tom (AT) adelphia (DOT) net> wrote:

No problem. The EPA supplies a whole list of acceptable
alternative refrigerants at;
http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/ref.../macssubs.html

Many states have their own licensing requirements, some only
require the purchaser to have the "609" certification. Check the
laws in your state.

There are restrictions on -any- substance introduced into a
mobile (automotive for highway use) air conditioning system.
Fill your AC system with Lime flavored Jello, it -still- falls
under the EPA rules, no exceptions.

All substitute refrigerants are required to use individually
unique service fittings, this helps eliminate cross contamination
during recovery and recycling. Had the rules been more
diligently followed over the last 15 years, the equipment
requirements for the people and businesses who legitimately
service automotive AC systems would be a whole lot less and the
costs to the consumer a whole lot lower.

I've never seen a leak detector, R-134a type or any other used to
recharge a system.
I think it's entirely reasonable to contact the refrigerant
manufacturers listed in the EPA SNAP list to see if they have
available adaptors to convert your R-12 manifold and gauge set to
use with their product.
If you live in the United States, be advised, it is illegal to
use hydrocarbon based refrigerants such as Envirosafe (ES-12a) in
any mobile air conditioning system.

Please don't contribute to making things worse than they already
are.

"tom" <tom (AT) adelphia (DOT) net> wrote

Tony,

There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a
license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You
still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a
500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC
compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along
with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both
automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with
good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A
decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts
and labor.
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:

Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.

Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
it.

Bullshit.

Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
claim.

Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, tom wrote:

Why? Just use R12. Sure, it's more expensive than other compounds, but it
is what the system is designed to work with, you don't need that much of
it, and it's the least problematic choice for a system meant to take R12.

If you manage to cobble together such a device, you will do a great deal
of damage to your A/C system. You will also very likely injure yourself
severely. A/C service is dangerous and requires detailed knowledge of
exactly what and what *not* to do.

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:16:24 -0400, "Coasty"
<uscg_retSPOOGE (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:


AC was not working when I purchased the car. PO was told Evap coil was
leaking. I can't get an AC shop to work on it this time of year, as
it wil require a labor intensive removal of the dash. The system must
be completely empty by now, so I do not feel I will be releasing freon
into the atmosphere. I want to determine exactly where the leak(s)
are. If it's the coil, I will get it repaired or replaced thru my
local ac shop. I'll do thr RR myself, then bring the car back to him
to have it properly, amd legally refilled.

This is why I want the proper adapter hose to get leak detector into
the system. I don't want to start pulling good working parts, only to
find out the leak is somewhere else.

Thanks again,

Tony

To correct your ignorance and you may want to click on the link go to the
technical link and read the EPA authorization on a direct replacement.

I was not talking about the stuff on EBAY most of it is crap and contains
contaminates along with being illegally imported from Mexico where it is
still made. If you consider EBAY as your guide buyer beware.

http://www.freeze12.com/


I am licensed and certified Universal and Automotive I show you mine if you
show mw yours.
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern (AT) 127 (DOT) 0.0.1> wrote

Another link for you.
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrig.../fittlist.html
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern (AT) 127 (DOT) 0.0.1> wrote

More to inform you

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/buying.html
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern (AT) 127 (DOT) 0.0.1> wrote

Some more reading to help you

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrig.../unaccept.html

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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern (AT) 127 (DOT) 0.0.1> wrote