GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market

#31

Quote:

That would be interesting to see...IIRC Tata has been making some cars which
are based on
British designs of a number of years ago... They are okay in their home
market, but dont really
have a reputation that would inspire confidence.

The Chinese might be able to do it, but realize that the American market can
be fickle, and even
with a desirable car of excellent quality, the incubation period can be
extended.

Both these nations, IMHO, have a problem with competition in the auto
industry....for now.

China is perhaps the most agressive nation in the world and will be a
monster force in short time.

Where do they sell Tata's... they look pretty interesting

#32

hls wrote:

Quote:

"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog (AT) yaywho (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Xns989B623301024pettyfogery (AT) 207 (DOT) 115.33.102...

Agree EXACTLY on the value of Aerostar and Astro... they were BEST OF for
many applications

Didnt some of the Ford minivan series have some horrible problems with
transmission failure, engine
problems?

Seems there were a lot of short runs on some of those trannies, maybe
failures below 50 k miles?

The minivan was a good solution for some families, but not all of them were,
apparently, created equal.

SEems like ford is STILL having transmission failures... buddy of mine
has a 5spd 3.0L ranger, tranny went at 12,000, took them 42 days to fix
it, and he just got it back yesterday. another buddy just bought an
escape to head out west, brand new, 7000k, tranny went, doesn't know if
he'll make it out west by new years...

at work, one ranger 3.0L auto, two tranny failures, one a complete
rebuild, truck had less than 80k on it both times. now the other one
was an 02, with 220k (talking kilometers here) and it failed, it was
also automatic. Thats not real good out of 5 rangers. (3 are 05's, 2
02's). The other 02 only has 120k kms on it, and it hasn't failed yet
however.

#33

Jeff wrote:

Quote:

"Joe" <Joe (AT) dontspam (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:2u0hh.1101$ZK2.844 (AT) newsfe06 (DOT) lga...
So rather
than trying to fix the problem, they're getting out entirely.
It's kind of amazing, really, that GM is the world's largest company and
there are so many markets that they don't even sell to. They don't even
care. For instance, they had unreliable junky diesel trucks that nobody
would buy. They let that drag on forever. They didn't field a 4-door
small (now considered mid-sized) SUV for a long time. They made a
half-hearted effort with the stretched S-10, but that was just a pile of
junk. They just watched while Jeep and Ford ran away with a huge market.
How about this - no extended cab pickup until 1988. 15 years later to the
market than the 2nd slowest. How about a competitor to the Mustang? Nope.
Police car? Nope. How about something you could use for a Taxi? Nope.

Actually, the Chevy Impala is used both as a taxi and cop car.

For that matter, Corvettes, Camaros and Tahoes are used as polices vehicles,
too.

...

Impalas make a bad taxi, and an even worse cop car.

#34

"N8N" <njnagel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Mike Hunter wrote:
The is a difference between vehicles 'used' by police and 'police'
vehicles.
Naturally a police department car use whatever they choose for bicycles
to
Hummers, and the do. but that does not mean they are certified for
patrol/pursuit work. There are one three vehicle sold in the US that are
'certified police vehicles.' The Ford Interceptor is by for the number
one
choice, by
around 80%. Followed by Impala and the newly certified Dodge vehicle.
There are a whole group of vehicles, mostly 4X4 that are sold for
'security'
service, some of which have been mentioned. The explorer and the Jeep
are
the most often used. Of the departments we serviced, in six eastern
states,
many that bought FWD certified police cars, because they were a few
thousand
dollars less expensive and more fuel efficient, eventually when back to
the
Interceptor. Some like the Pa State Police, ban the use of FWD cars for
pursuit work.

I can certainly understand that. I am certain that the police Impalas
have uprated suspension, etc. but the basic dynamics of the chassis is
not so good for high speed handling. I've been told it's basically a
stretched Lumina and it shows. Now my comments are based on the '05
and earlier, I have not driven the '06 yet.

They actually do quite extensive upgrades to the Impala before using it as a
Police cruiser, at least down here. For starters, the 3800 is standard (no
3400's). The brakes, suspension, tires, and charging system's are all beefed
up as well. We still have the old style Impala's here, but there are a
couple of the new '06 models being used.

Quote:

If I were expecting to be involved in pursuit driving, I would
certainly want a purpose-built vehicle, not an uprated economy sedan.

I was actually talking with an Officer in a near-by town who had Dodge
Charger interceptor's. I asked him what him and his officers preferred, the
Charger, the Crown Vic, or the Impala. He said the Impala is the most
popular, followed by the Crown Vic, and then the Charger. I guess it is a
matter of preference.

#35

"Just Facts" <Jfact (AT) intnet (DOT) wrld> wrote

Quote:

In article <FYmdnRsaDpMWKxnYnZ2dnUVZ_q2pnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com>,
"80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

I am in Ontario, and we have Impala's as Police cars, as well as taxi's.

Here in Vancouver the Impala is currently popular as an airport cab, but
the Toyota Corolla is increasingly becoming very common for in town
taxis and even airport use.

Pearson International (Toronto's airport) is the nearest to me, but is still
around an hour away, so we don't see many airport cab's. I do recall seeing
a PT cruiser used a couple of times though. Like I said above, as for
taxi's, the Impala's are the thing here. There are even a few local
companies who use Lumina's.

Quote:

A few months ago 4 of us each with a checked bag and a carry on, were
brought home from the airport in a Corolla. It's large space for a
smaller car surprised me; fortunately the three smaller people took the
rear seat and I got the very spacious front seat.

Good stuff. I prefer large cars myself. Bonneville's are the way to go,
IMHO.

#36

"Picasso" <Picasso (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Jeff wrote:
"Joe" <Joe (AT) dontspam (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:2u0hh.1101$ZK2.844 (AT) newsfe06 (DOT) lga...
So rather
than trying to fix the problem, they're getting out entirely.
It's kind of amazing, really, that GM is the world's largest company and
there are so many markets that they don't even sell to. They don't even
care. For instance, they had unreliable junky diesel trucks that nobody
would buy. They let that drag on forever. They didn't field a 4-door
small (now considered mid-sized) SUV for a long time. They made a
half-hearted effort with the stretched S-10, but that was just a pile of
junk. They just watched while Jeep and Ford ran away with a huge
market. How about this - no extended cab pickup until 1988. 15 years
later to the market than the 2nd slowest. How about a competitor to the
Mustang? Nope. Police car? Nope. How about something you could use for
a Taxi? Nope.

Actually, the Chevy Impala is used both as a taxi and cop car.

For that matter, Corvettes, Camaros and Tahoes are used as polices
vehicles, too.

...

Impalas make a bad taxi, and an even worse cop car.

You know this from experience, I presume? Officer's here love them.

#37

"80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

<...>

Quote:

I was actually talking with an Officer in a near-by town who had Dodge
Charger interceptor's. I asked him what him and his officers preferred,
the Charger, the Crown Vic, or the Impala. He said the Impala is the most
popular, followed by the Crown Vic, and then the Charger. I guess it is a
matter of preference.

The Charger is by far the coolest looking. Not that that matters as much to
the cops in the cars.

I saw a couple in NYC. Way cool. The NYPD was testing them. They had V6 for
city patrols and a V8 got highway patrols.

Jeff

#38

"Jeff" <jeff (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

"80 Knight" <NOMORESPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:gf-dna4zHvnWBhvYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com...
...

I was actually talking with an Officer in a near-by town who had Dodge
Charger interceptor's. I asked him what him and his officers preferred,
the Charger, the Crown Vic, or the Impala. He said the Impala is the most
popular, followed by the Crown Vic, and then the Charger. I guess it is a
matter of preference.

The Charger is by far the coolest looking.

I think the Charger in-of-itself is a nice looking car, but I don't think
that body style deserved the name Charger. No offence intended to you
though. Just my humble opinion.

Quote:

Not that that matters as much to the cops in the cars.

True.

Quote:

I saw a couple in NYC. Way cool. The NYPD was testing them. They had V6
for city patrols and a V8 got highway patrols.

I am not sure which engine the two CHargers I saw in a near by town had. I
was too suprised at seeing them to think about that question.

#39

N8N wrote:

Quote:

Mike Hunter wrote:

The is a difference between vehicles 'used' by police and 'police' vehicles.
Naturally a police department car use whatever they choose for bicycles to
Hummers, and the do. but that does not mean they are certified for
patrol/pursuit work. There are one three vehicle sold in the US that are
'certified police vehicles.' The Ford Interceptor is by for the number one
choice, by
around 80%. Followed by Impala and the newly certified Dodge vehicle.
There are a whole group of vehicles, mostly 4X4 that are sold for 'security'
service, some of which have been mentioned. The explorer and the Jeep are
the most often used. Of the departments we serviced, in six eastern states,
many that bought FWD certified police cars, because they were a few thousand
dollars less expensive and more fuel efficient, eventually when back to the
Interceptor. Some like the Pa State Police, ban the use of FWD cars for
pursuit work.

I can certainly understand that. I am certain that the police Impalas
have uprated suspension, etc. but the basic dynamics of the chassis is
not so good for high speed handling. I've been told it's basically a
stretched Lumina and it shows. Now my comments are based on the '05
and earlier, I have not driven the '06 yet.

If I were expecting to be involved in pursuit driving, I would
certainly want a purpose-built vehicle, not an uprated economy sedan.

nate

Not to cross swords with another thread, but the Impala once again
proves that front-wheel drive and police driving DO NOT MIX. The
drivetrain isn't strong enough, and the handling isn't safe enough.
Dodge never even bothered to try to certify the Intrepid/Concorde/Vision
for that very reason, although a lot of police departments did buy them
and use them for light-duty work.

It will be very interesting to see how the Charger plays out as a cop
car. The 3.5L V6 Charger Police Package accelerates faster than the v8
Ford Interceptor, and the 5.7L V8 Charger Police Package is amazing.
Ford has had the market to themselves WAY too long, and the
Interceptor's pathetic performance is showing.

#40

N8N wrote:

Quote:

Steve wrote:

Jeff wrote:

"Steve" <no (AT) spam (DOT) thanks> wrote in message
news:7sWdnVwdMLAzjxnYnZ2dnUVZ_v-tnZ2d (AT) texas (DOT) net...

N8N wrote:
ow out.

The retarded thing is that GM killed the Astro van which was a favorite
of service techs everywhere and had a little niche all its own. What
the hell were they thinking? There's no other vehicle to compete with
it, it still sold, and yet they axed it.

I disagree. I'm guessing they got out BECAUSE there was another vehicle to
compete with it, and one that took the whole market lock stock and barrel
when it debuted: the Dodge Sprinter. With the option of a small Benz
diesel in addition to the full line of gasoline engines and a very
adaptable body, it pretty well blew the Astro into the weeds.

The Dodge Sprinter is a full-size van. The Astro is a mini-van. They are in
different market segments.

Not really. The Astro is about as big as a "full size" van of the 70s,
on a little bit shorter wheelbase. The Sprinter is bigger, but still
smaller than the B-series it replaced, let alone the Ford E-series. Its
a delivery/fleet van, which is exactly what the Astro had morphed into
despite being created as a family "mini" van. It just wasn't very "mini"
and had the same miserable driver's seating position as full-size RWD
vans because of the engine "doghouse" being in the way.

The odd thing is that of all those, the Dodge B-series was the most
pleasant to drive IMHO (I have not driven the Sprinter though.) The
only fault I could find with them was that they went through brakes
like mad, and I recall one incident with a lower ball joint failure on
one, but they were used hard on poor city roads. I found the Ford
E-series to feel very ponderous.

nate

I liked the driving position on the E-series much better than the Dodge
B-series because the Ford "extended nose" reduced the size of the
doghouse quite a bit, but the Fords do indeed handle like... well...
twin-I-beam Fords have always handled :-/

I haven't yet driven a newer non-Twin-I-beam E-series, so maybe that's
been fixed.

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GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market

Chrysler Dodge, Plymouth, Jeep, Eagle, etc info/talk (rec.autos.makers.chrysler)

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 04:44 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 04:47 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 04:49 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 08:46 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 08:49 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 08:50 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 11:59 AM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 12:13 PM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 05:13 PM

Re: GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market - 12-18-2006 , 05:15 PM