Re: Fiat CEO: Chrysler worse than we thought

#31

erschroedinger (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:

Quote:

On Sep 30, 10:57 pm, Steve <n... (AT) spam (DOT) thanks> wrote:
erschroedin... (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:
On Sep 19, 8:42 am, QX <nom... (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:
Let's remember that the Grand Caravan/Town & Country are
still selling above expectations. They are the only NA made
minivans and still the perfect choice for the large family.
When did Alabama secede from NA? 'Cause the Honda Odyssey is made
right here in Lincoln, Alabama.
Also, when did Indiana secede? The Toyota Sienna is made Princeton,
Indiana.
In fact, since the Chryslers are now made only in Windsor, Ontario,
the Honda and Toyota are the only minivans made in the US.
But all Toyotas and Hondas are still foreign cars. Period. I don't give
a rip where its assembled, I care where its designed and where the money
ultimately goes when I buy it.

Most Toyotas and Hondas are designed in the US. Both companies have
extensive design studios in California, and some models are sold only
in the US and are designed solely for the US (e.g., full-size pickups,
minivans).

And as for where the money goes, buy stock in Toyota or Honda and them
some of the money will go here. That is, in addition to all the auto
workers they employ, all their dealers, all the workers at their
dealers, ... All of whom are Americans and are getting a big chunk of
the money.

And I believe they are non-union, so there is certainly something to be
said in their favor for that.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

#32

Steve wrote:

Quote:

I don't give a rip where its assembled, I care where its
designed and where the money ultimately goes when I buy it.

Is that true for all the other consumer products and even
food that you buy? Or are you just grandstanding by making
that statement?

I am not grandstanding when I say that, when possible, I
will go out of my way to buy something designed and made by
and American-owned company versus overseas-owned.

Actually, yes - you are grandstanding.

Arguably, what many Americans would feel they gave the world is this
idea that a free market with many players in fair competition with each
other will lead to the best product for the buyer.

What you are saying is that you will throw that idea out the window and
base your consumer-product choice on where a product is made, or by
whom, vs base your decision on the merits of the product and the value
of it's price.

Quote:

I'd rather see the innovation and engineering done in the US

As would any other citizen of any other country.

If you want to reward creativity and superior design and construction,
then buy the better product regardless where it's made or who designed
it.

If you feel that the markets are tilted in favor of other countries, to
the extent that good product design and construction is being undermined
by trade policy, then write your congressman.

#33

erschroedinger (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:

Quote:

Most Toyotas and Hondas are designed in the US. Both companies have
extensive design studios in California, and some models are sold only
in the US and are designed solely for the US (e.g., full-size pickups,
minivans).

Blah blah, woof woof. Still a Japanese owned company.

Quote:

And as for where the money goes, buy stock in Toyota or Honda

Uh... No.

#34

MoPar Man wrote:

Quote:

I am not grandstanding when I say that, when possible, I
will go out of my way to buy something designed and made by
and American-owned company versus overseas-owned.

Actually, yes - you are grandstanding.

Arguably, what many Americans would feel they gave the world is this
idea that a free market with many players in fair competition with each
other will lead to the best product for the buyer.

What you are saying is that you will throw that idea out the window and
base your consumer-product choice on where a product is made, or by
whom, vs base your decision on the merits of the product and the value
of it's price.

No, I didn't say that or imply it. Maybe I didn't adequately clarify
what I meant by saying "when possible...." but I thought it was obvious.
"When possible..." includes getting the same or better quality, as is
the case when I buy a Freiderich air conditioner instead of an LG or
Panasonic. The product is better, its made in San Antonio, and the only
downside is that its more expensive and I have to go somewhere other
than Home Depot to get one. I'll take that drive to find it. But no, I
wouldn't if it were an inferior product.

#35

Steve wrote:

Quote:

What you are saying is that you will base your consumer-product
choice on where a product is made, or by whom, vs the merits of
the product and the value of it's price.

No, I didn't say that or imply it. Maybe I didn't adequately
clarify what I meant by saying "when possible...."

This is what you said:

-----------

Quote:

I don't like the trend in some products where you CANNOT buy
an American-designed or manufactured version. I am not
grandstanding when I say that, when possible, I will go out
of my way to buy something designed and made by and American-
owned company versus overseas-owned. I'll pay more (within
reason) as well as go to a less-convenient sales point if
necessary.
------------

Quote:

but I thought it was obvious. "When possible..." includes
getting the same or better quality,

Nowhere in the segment I quoted did you make any indication that you
would choose the better product regardless who made or designed it. All
you talked about was that you would choose an American designed/built
product "when possible". Any rational reader would conclude that your
"when possible" proviso meant that IF there was an American-made
version, you would buy it, and if there wasn't, that you'd then buy
foreign-made.

If by "when possible" you meant "when appropriate" or "when suitable",
you should have said it.

The part about paying more for a US-made version remains unexplained.
If you would pay more for a US version, presumably it would be because
it is a "better" product. If there was no such increase in product
quality, then why would you pay more for the US-made version?

Quote:

as is the case when I buy a Freiderich air conditioner
instead of an LG or Panasonic. The product is better, ...

There is really no consistent, unbiased, experienced or accurate source
for comparative information for many consumer-grade durable goods.
Beyond a simple spec-sheet describing the basic capabilities or features
of a given product, consumers really have no way to know much about the
intimate mechanical or structural details of most products and how those
details will play out over the lifespan of the product.

For many types of consumer products that even have reviews, many times
by the time the review is published, the product will be close to being
replaced by next-years version.

#36

MoPar Man wrote:

Quote:

The part about paying more for a US-made version remains unexplained.
If you would pay more for a US version, presumably it would be because
it is a "better" product. If there was no such increase in product
quality, then why would you pay more for the US-made version?

Let's just chalk your inability to understand my motivation in this
regard to the same phenomenon that makes me unable to fathom why on
God's green earth you'd prefer a v6 300M or other front-drive LH chassis
to a rear-drive v8 LX chassis Charger or Challenger.

We're different people with different preferences.

#37

Steve wrote:

Quote:

The part about paying more for a US-made version remains
unexplained.

And after your latest reply it still is.

Quote:

If you would pay more for a US version, presumably it would
be because it is a "better" product.

Let's just chalk your inability to understand my motivation
in this regard

And for which you obviously don't want to explain yourself.

Quote:

to the same phenomenon that makes me unable to fathom why on
God's green earth you'd prefer a v6 300M or other front-
drive LH chassis to a rear-drive v8 LX chassis Charger
or Challenger.

Because I, like about 1/2 of the population of North America, have to
deal with snow and ice for some part of the year, for which
rear-wheel-drive vehicles are totally unsatisfactory in dealing with.

If I had a 3-car garage, then ya, sure, I'd have a nice RWD car parked
there during the winter (and hopefully not a 2-ton RWD car either). But
I don't. So my daily driver has to be able to handle the summer and
winter. My other vehicle is a 2001 Dodge Ram, with a 318 V8 (ie - 5.2L)
and I sure as hell don't drive it in the winter.

And with regard to your comment about a v6-300m, you obviously don't
know what a 250 hp engine can do with a 3600 lb car. 14.4 lbs per hp
ain't bad.

Quote:

We're different people with different preferences.

And some are more sane, rational or practical than others.

#38

And which SBW* test does that pass?

DAS

* so bl..dy what

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
"Steve" <no (AT) spam (DOT) thanks> wrote

[...]

Quote:

Blah blah, woof woof. Still a Japanese owned company.

#39

MoPar Man wrote:

Quote:

Steve wrote:

The part about paying more for a US-made version remains
unexplained.

And after your latest reply it still is.

If you would pay more for a US version, presumably it would
be because it is a "better" product.

Let's just chalk your inability to understand my motivation
in this regard

And for which you obviously don't want to explain yourself.

I did explain myself (given equal quality products, I'll keep my money
within the US even if it means I spend a little more because its a net
benefit to me). Its nothing more complicated than that!

Quote:

to the same phenomenon that makes me unable to fathom why on
God's green earth you'd prefer a v6 300M or other front-
drive LH chassis to a rear-drive v8 LX chassis Charger
or Challenger.

Because I, like about 1/2 of the population of North America, have to
deal with snow and ice for some part of the year, for which
rear-wheel-drive vehicles are totally unsatisfactory in dealing with.

Traction control on RWD is better than FWD any day.