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shudder: need rotation or alighment? or...

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  #1  
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Simon
 
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Default shudder: need rotation or alighment? or... - 09-04-2005 , 02:12 AM






94 Caravan SE 170K miles. It has been running well except minor transmission
hesitations sometimes after stop.

Got a new problem lately. It shudders when speed is over 50mph. City driving
is still fine, but can't get it on highways.

All the tries are 1-2 years, threads are ok. So it's a problem of rotation
or alignment? or could be others?

Thanks.



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Ted Mittelstaedt
 
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Default Re: shudder: need rotation or alighment? or... - 09-04-2005 , 03:16 AM







"Simon" <simonswu (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
94 Caravan SE 170K miles. It has been running well except minor
transmission
hesitations sometimes after stop.

Got a new problem lately. It shudders when speed is over 50mph. City
driving
is still fine, but can't get it on highways.

All the tries are 1-2 years, threads are ok. So it's a problem of rotation
or alignment? or could be others?

One cause of these problems are worn/loose tie rods. This is easy to
check - jack up
the left front until the wheel is off the ground, grab tire and try to turn
it right and left
the way the tire would move if the steering wheel would move. Do the same
to the
other side. If you can move the wheel from side to side any amount at all,
then you
have a loose tire rod.

For a pic of the tie rod see this:

http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.co...pics/fig16.jpg

The rod that is wired up is the tie rod. The round accordion it is going
into
is the steering rack, the inner tie rod is in there.

Any competent alignment shop can diagnose this as it's not possible to align
the
car and have it stay aligned if these are loose. If it's an inner tie rod
then the best
course is to pull the entire rack and pinion out and replace it with a
rebuilt one.

If it's not a tie rod then check for broken belts in the tires - rotate both
front tires
to the back and see if the problem goes away.

Ted




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  #3  
Old   
Simon
 
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Default Re: shudder: need rotation or alighment? or... - 09-04-2005 , 11:16 PM



Done just exactly as advised. YES, it must be the tie rods worn out. The
driver's side is much worse. The tires are all pretty new, should be no
problem. But it's not a job I can do myself, will take it to a mechanic.
Thanks a lot Ted.
Simon


"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm (AT) toybox (DOT) placo.com> wrote

Quote:
"Simon" <simonswu (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:11hl41p54gd3ua8 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com...
94 Caravan SE 170K miles. It has been running well except minor
transmission
hesitations sometimes after stop.

Got a new problem lately. It shudders when speed is over 50mph. City
driving
is still fine, but can't get it on highways.

All the tries are 1-2 years, threads are ok. So it's a problem of
rotation
or alignment? or could be others?


One cause of these problems are worn/loose tie rods. This is easy to
check - jack up
the left front until the wheel is off the ground, grab tire and try to
turn
it right and left
the way the tire would move if the steering wheel would move. Do the same
to the
other side. If you can move the wheel from side to side any amount at
all,
then you
have a loose tire rod.

For a pic of the tie rod see this:

http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.co...pics/fig16.jpg

The rod that is wired up is the tie rod. The round accordion it is going
into
is the steering rack, the inner tie rod is in there.

Any competent alignment shop can diagnose this as it's not possible to
align
the
car and have it stay aligned if these are loose. If it's an inner tie rod
then the best
course is to pull the entire rack and pinion out and replace it with a
rebuilt one.

If it's not a tie rod then check for broken belts in the tires - rotate
both
front tires
to the back and see if the problem goes away.

Ted





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  #4  
Old   
Ted Mittelstaedt
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: shudder: need rotation or alighment? or... - 09-05-2005 , 04:07 AM




"Simon" <simonswu (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Done just exactly as advised. YES, it must be the tie rods worn out. The
driver's side is much worse. The tires are all pretty new, should be no
problem. But it's not a job I can do myself, will take it to a mechanic.
Thanks a lot Ted.
Simon

Your welcome. It is almost certainly an inner tie rod on the inside of the
rack cylinder. Probably both. The rack and pinion will have to come out
and
be replaced and the front end realigned. Generally in a vehicle that
vintage
you would use a remanufactured rack and pinion. Over the counter at
an auto parts store these cost around $150. I would call around to auto
parts stores and get some pricing before you call around to garages. Also
get pricing on tie rod ends and get pricing on right and left front axles.
(should
be around $80 per axle) If the axles are original there's a good chance the
CV boots are spiderwebed with cracks and are about ready to go. Since
the front crossmember has to be dropped in order to get at the
rack-to-steering-column attachments, the smart thing to do is to replace the
rack, both tie rod ends, and both axles if any of these parts show signs of
wear. If you do replace tie rod ends, then make sure the replacements
are fitted with zerk (grease) fittings. Also get some pricing on power
steering
hoses, as the garage may find cracked PS hoses. And one other thing
if the spark plugs haven't been done or the plug wires haven't been done
then you might as well have them done to since with the rack removed,
access to the back plugs is rediculously easy.

If you want to see what's involved read down to figure 23 on my transmission
pictorial here:

http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.co...s/project.html

I would suggest you make up a list of the following and shop it around -
a busy shop might be inclined to quote this with separate time allocations
to each job, but since all these parts are all tied up with each other, to
do
them all at once should take far less time. Also, keep in mind this is a
worse
case scenario - it might be they get in there and find the rack is fine
and only the 2 outside tie rod ends are bad, that doesen't even need a
realignment, and $200 later your on your way. But this way you avoid
the phone calls like "We got the front end apart and discovered X and X
and X and X is bad... and see the price shoot up through the roof. With
a steering problem like this, any shop you give it to would be incurring a
huge liability to let it go out the door again without a solid steering
system
in it, so you got to be really comfortable with who you take it to in
advance!

Replace:

Rack & pinion
LH and RH outer tie rods
LH and RH axles
power steering hoses
flush power steering pump

Also one other question for you, is this on the original transmission?
And what size engine does it have?

Ted

Quote:
"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm (AT) toybox (DOT) placo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$vu6ami$j8e$1 (AT) news (DOT) ipinc.net...

"Simon" <simonswu (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:11hl41p54gd3ua8 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com...
94 Caravan SE 170K miles. It has been running well except minor
transmission
hesitations sometimes after stop.

Got a new problem lately. It shudders when speed is over 50mph. City
driving
is still fine, but can't get it on highways.

All the tries are 1-2 years, threads are ok. So it's a problem of
rotation
or alignment? or could be others?


One cause of these problems are worn/loose tie rods. This is easy to
check - jack up
the left front until the wheel is off the ground, grab tire and try to
turn
it right and left
the way the tire would move if the steering wheel would move. Do the
same
to the
other side. If you can move the wheel from side to side any amount at
all,
then you
have a loose tire rod.

For a pic of the tie rod see this:

http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.co...pics/fig16.jpg

The rod that is wired up is the tie rod. The round accordion it is
going
into
is the steering rack, the inner tie rod is in there.

Any competent alignment shop can diagnose this as it's not possible to
align
the
car and have it stay aligned if these are loose. If it's an inner tie
rod
then the best
course is to pull the entire rack and pinion out and replace it with a
rebuilt one.

If it's not a tie rod then check for broken belts in the tires - rotate
both
front tires
to the back and see if the problem goes away.

Ted







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