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123 Ignition

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  #1  
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Geoff Mackenzie
 
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Default 123 Ignition - 10-06-2009 , 04:09 PM






Hi - I promised to report on this.. For them what don't know it's on a 1966
E-Type, 9:1 pistons (Brit, not European or American spec). For them what
knows me of old I apologise for being boring.

First impression - absolutely excellent. Pulls strongly from 700rpm to
5,000 rpm (at which point the engine goes bang). It is, subjectively, far
more smooth throughout the rev range - and it wasn't exactly a rough old
nail before.

Now the downsides. Under specific conditions, full throttle in third or
fourth, between 3,000 and 3,500 there is a very brief misfire followed by
two or three backfires. Doesn't happen if you are accelerating moderately
gently, only if you are balls to the wall.

Then there is the issue of which version you buy. I've gone for the general
"six" version. There is a specific version for the E, prefixed JAG. But
this appears to have been designed by a Jaguar racer about seven years ago.
Fuels have changed since then, and anyway it's a road car, not a racer.

And the matter of the curve you set. 16 choices. Factory recommended is 4;
if it pinks, try 5. Other people have given opinions ranging from 9 to A.
And one person had the same problem with the misfire, and gave up and went
back to points. Problem is that you have to take the whole unit out to
alter the curve - not an easy job on the E - it would have been good if
there was a simple vernier on the side, a la distributor.

Also, it's running hot. Even in this horrible weather the Kenlowe is on 80%
of the time, whereas it should only cut in if you have been stationary for
several minutes.

Obvious points have been checked: fuel supply OK (new pump just fitted),
coil OK, plugs OK, HT leads OK.

I emphasize this is only a preliminary report, less than 100 miles due to
the failure of the fuel pump.

Next step is probably a rolling road test. Anybody know one within easy
reach of Surrey/Sussex border, or possibly Surrey/Middlesex? Must be one
which understands elderly cars and allows the owner to fiddle about under
the bonnet while the car is running - my local one won't even let you in due
to "elf n safety".

Will report further.

Geoff MacK

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  #2  
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Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default Re: 123 Ignition - 10-06-2009 , 07:20 PM






In article <7j1mfuF336u54U1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>,
Geoff Mackenzie <gmac (AT) chapterfive (DOT) org.uk> wrote:
Quote:
And the matter of the curve you set. 16 choices. Factory recommended
is 4; if it pinks, try 5. Other people have given opinions ranging
from 9 to A. And one person had the same problem with the misfire, and
gave up and went back to points. Problem is that you have to take the
whole unit out to alter the curve - not an easy job on the E - it would
have been good if there was a simple vernier on the side, a la
distributor.
Did think it a bit crude. The obvious way is to do it in software and
programme via some form of external controller.

The cheap and cheerful Jaycar unit uses a dedicated controller on a
parallel cable which you simply disconnect after use. So rather fiddly to
use since you have multiple function buttons.

The MegaSquirt hooks up to a PC via a serial port. Doesn't need a fancy
PC - anything that will run Win95 onwards.
I've actually got the MegaSquirt up and running on the SD1 - but only
doing the fuelling for the minute. Once that's near enough - and it's
looking promising - I'll swap over the ignition to it too.

Nothing to stop you using a Jaycar unit to alter the curve from the 123,
though. Although the timing would have to be vastly out to cause a
misfire. Sure it's not simply a spark problem? These high output devices
often cause tracking on a system not designed for so much energy - or even
break down the plug leads.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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  #3  
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Jim Warren
 
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Default Re: 123 Ignition - 10-07-2009 , 04:35 AM



Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
<snip>
Quote:
Sure it's not simply a spark problem? These high output devices
often cause tracking on a system not designed for so much energy - or even
break down the plug leads.

That is a possibility. I knew an electronics student who made his own
electronic unit, but it ran at a voltage that was difficult to keep
inside the plug leads. So he had to keep the leads scrupulously clean
otherwise the sparks ran down the dust on the outside of the leads and
jumped across to the block to earth. Lift the bonnet on a dark and
misty night and there was St Elmo's fire running across the top of the
engine. In the end, he encased each plug lead in a plastic tube!

But in your case, I wonder if the timing is quite right? You have a
combination of vacuum and centrifugal advance curves in a conventional
dizzy set-up and I wonder if you have got the 123 reacting correctly to
revs and vacuum? It could explain why you are running hot.

I would also try another set of plugs. It is not unknown for there to
be an occasional iffy one, even if it is brand new.

Jim

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  #4  
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Badger
 
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Default Re: 123 Ignition - 10-07-2009 , 07:39 AM



"Geoff Mackenzie" <gmac (AT) chapterfive (DOT) org.uk> wrote

Quote:
First impression - absolutely excellent. Pulls strongly from 700rpm to
5,000 rpm (at which point the engine goes bang). It is, subjectively, far
more smooth throughout the rev range - and it wasn't exactly a rough old
nail before.

Now the downsides. Under specific conditions, full throttle in third or
fourth, between 3,000 and 3,500 there is a very brief misfire followed by
two or three backfires. Doesn't happen if you are accelerating moderately
gently, only if you are balls to the wall.
Just an outside-the-box thought here - land rover 2.25 engines with
ducellier distributors used to suffer the exact same thing, caused by a bad
earth between the fixed and moving parts inside the distributor. I wonder if
there's some sort of earthing issue going on?

Quote:
Then there is the issue of which version you buy. I've gone for the
general "six" version. There is a specific version for the E, prefixed
JAG. But this appears to have been designed by a Jaguar racer about seven
years ago. Fuels have changed since then, and anyway it's a road car, not
a racer.
To be honest, pump fuels haven't really changed much since the introduction
of unleaded petrol way back when.

Quote:
And the matter of the curve you set. 16 choices. Factory recommended is
4; if it pinks, try 5. Other people have given opinions ranging from 9 to
A. And one person had the same problem with the misfire, and gave up and
went back to points. Problem is that you have to take the whole unit out
to alter the curve - not an easy job on the E - it would have been good if
there was a simple vernier on the side, a la distributor.

Also, it's running hot. Even in this horrible weather the Kenlowe is on
80% of the time, whereas it should only cut in if you have been stationary
for several minutes.
Running hot is a classic symptom of retarded timing, even a change of 5
degrees (on a rover V8 engine) produces a considerable increase in running
temp. Ally head engines seem to be more prone to this than cast iron ones.

Quote:
Next step is probably a rolling road test. Anybody know one within easy
reach of Surrey/Sussex border, or possibly Surrey/Middlesex? Must be one
which understands elderly cars and allows the owner to fiddle about under
the bonnet while the car is running - my local one won't even let you in
due to "elf n safety".
Sorry, I don't even know of any in the North of Scotland!
Badger.

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  #5  
Old   
Geoff Mackenzie
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 123 Ignition - 10-07-2009 , 07:52 AM



"Badger" <brianhatton (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Next step is probably a rolling road test. Anybody know one within easy
reach of Surrey/Sussex border, or possibly Surrey/Middlesex? Must be one
which understands elderly cars and allows the owner to fiddle about under
the bonnet while the car is running - my local one won't even let you in
due to "elf n safety".

Sorry, I don't even know of any in the North of Scotland!
Badger.

I think Bob Henderson, formerly MPG&H Conversions, has one. He used to be
based in Surrey, but has for many years been on the Isle of Skye. Hope this
helps....

Geoff MacK

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  #6  
Old   
Mike Dean
 
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Default Re: 123 ignition - 10-14-2009 , 07:17 PM



"Geoff Mackenzie" <gmac (AT) chapterfive (DOT) org.uk> wrote

Quote:
for a speculative buy. So - anybody tried it? Opinions?

Geoff MacK
I think you need to go to www.40over40.com
Hope this helps with your problems

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  #7  
Old   
Geoff Mackenzie
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 123 ignition - 10-15-2009 , 03:51 AM



"Mike Dean" <mikedean (AT) mickeysmagicalparty (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
"Geoff Mackenzie" <gmac (AT) chapterfive (DOT) org.uk> wrote in message
news:7gsrtqF2nkjahU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net...
for a speculative buy. So - anybody tried it? Opinions?

Geoff MacK

I think you need to go to www.40over40.com
Hope this helps with your problems

Hmmmm - five OT and moderately insulting posts around midnight last night -
got a hangover this morning, have we?

Geoff MacK

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  #8  
Old   
Dave Plowman (News)
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 123 ignition - 10-15-2009 , 05:04 AM



In article <7jo2inF33ue3eU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>,
Geoff Mackenzie <gmac (AT) chapterfive (DOT) org.uk> wrote:

Quote:
"Mike Dean" <mikedean (AT) mickeysmagicalparty (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:crGdnW6dOpCwwUvXnZ2dnUVZ8uednZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com...

"Geoff Mackenzie" <gmac (AT) chapterfive (DOT) org.uk> wrote in message
news:7gsrtqF2nkjahU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net...
for a speculative buy. So - anybody tried it? Opinions?

Geoff MacK

I think you need to go to www.40over40.com
Hope this helps with your problems


Hmmmm - five OT and moderately insulting posts around midnight last
night - got a hangover this morning, have we?
More likely he managed to get into the office in the secure unit.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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