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Re: Adpating self-levelling Nivomats for the SD1 Vitesse?
Classic Cars (UK) Classic Cars in the UK (uk.rec.cars.classic)
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Re: Adpating self-levelling Nivomats for the SD1 Vitesse? -
09-10-2009
, 05:10 AM
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It could be the stiffer suspension means there's less difference than on a standard height car. But FWIW I find the Vitesse ride just too hard for London roads. And my backside. ;-) We've had this discussion before. Personally I feel more comfortable with a firm ride. In this respect the Vitesse, IMO, gives a good compromise between comfort and a ride that is too hard. |
SD1 but handles better.
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What also might make difference, is that I think the Vitesse seats are more comfortable and supportive than those in other models, inc the EFI. |
--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *
Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
#2
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Well, the 2600 has different weight distribution and smaller wheels and tyres. You'd need to a Vitesse and EFI to do a true comparison. Fairy nuff, but the Vitesse does have less roll and a firmer ride. On rough roads the Vitesse might give a jiggly ride, but IMO on the open road that disadvantage is more than compensated for by it's sharpness and the improved feeling it gives back through the steering. |
driving a standard car. Although it is from the outside.
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FWIW, given the cost cutting on the SD1, I can't see Rover fitting variable rate springs and Nivomats if conventional was just as good. I think that was probably due to the market it was aimed at. Like other SD1's in the range, I believe that having self levelling was seen as a selling point for the more expensive versions. Not for any other reason,.and with the Vitesse they were trying to cater for both the sporty driver and the executive type who might load the car up for a dash to the south of france or wherever. |
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With a heavy load, having self levelling suspension probably does help, but for the majority of motoring I don't think it's any better than a good std setup, which I believe I've achieved on my Vitesse without using Nivomats. |
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And, bear in mind that it was not a cheap car when it first came out. At the time, it and the EFI were competing with other executive cars. Like BMW's and Mercedes, so self levelling was probably seen as a plus in that market. |
a crude beam axle. BMW and Merc had long moved on to independent rear
ends. As had Rover, before the need to cut costs.
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Of course doing extremely well on the track must have helped their sales figures, but I doubt the track versions had Nivomats :-) |
But the requirements for a racing car have nothing to do with a road one.
--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *
Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
#3
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In article <7grc4iF2qkbntU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>, Miike G <postmaster (AT) miktoolman (DOT) plus.net> wrote: Well, the 2600 has different weight distribution and smaller wheels and tyres. You'd need to a Vitesse and EFI to do a true comparison. Fairy nuff, but the Vitesse does have less roll and a firmer ride. On rough roads the Vitesse might give a jiggly ride, but IMO on the open road that disadvantage is more than compensated for by it's sharpness and the improved feeling it gives back through the steering. I'll give you the less roll. But I don't think it's that noticeable when driving a standard car. Although it is from the outside. FWIW, given the cost cutting on the SD1, I can't see Rover fitting variable rate springs and Nivomats if conventional was just as good. I think that was probably due to the market it was aimed at. Like other SD1's in the range, I believe that having self levelling was seen as a selling point for the more expensive versions. Not for any other reason,.and with the Vitesse they were trying to cater for both the sporty driver and the executive type who might load the car up for a dash to the south of france or wherever. My experience says it's essential if you don't want the rear bottoming. |
Mine only bottoms under exceptional circumstances.
On a road with the sort of undulations one would expect it has never
bottomed. Even when quite heavily loaded.
When I had my business, I often used to deliver press tools in it rather
than use my van. Anything up to 2cwt at a time. It didn't make that much
difference to the ride hight, so most of the suspension travel was still
there.
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With a heavy load, having self levelling suspension probably does help, but for the majority of motoring I don't think it's any better than a good std setup, which I believe I've achieved on my Vitesse without using Nivomats. But did you ever drive it hard with a full load? |
not when cornering. IME most passengers don't like being flung sideways on
bends. :-)
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And, bear in mind that it was not a cheap car when it first came out. At the time, it and the EFI were competing with other executive cars. Like BMW's and Mercedes, so self levelling was probably seen as a plus in that market. Certainly essential to provide a reasonable ride/handling compromise with a crude beam axle. BMW and Merc had long moved on to independent rear ends. As had Rover, before the need to cut costs. Of course doing extremely well on the track must have helped their sales figures, but I doubt the track versions had Nivomats :-) Extremely well? You must have rose tinted specs. ;-) |
car races in the mid to later 80's
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But the requirements for a racing car have nothing to do with a road one |
Mike. .
#4
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In article <7grc4iF2qkbntU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>, Miike G <postmaster (AT) miktoolman (DOT) plus.net> wrote: It could be the stiffer suspension means there's less difference than on a standard height car. But FWIW I find the Vitesse ride just too hard for London roads. And my backside. ;-) We've had this discussion before. Personally I feel more comfortable with a firm ride. In this respect the Vitesse, IMO, gives a good compromise between comfort and a ride that is too hard. But you now have a BMW E39? That has a softer ride than even a standard SD1 but handles better. |
of my BMW's, even though the E34 has dealer fitted M-Tech suspension.
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What also might make difference, is that I think the Vitesse seats are more comfortable and supportive than those in other models, inc the EFI. Maybe - but the leather ones are the same? |
Cloth covered ones were std in the Vitesse.
Maybe a few leather covered ones were fitted for special orders.
Or maybe a few customers had leather seats out of the EFI fitted or the
Vitesse bucket seats recovered.. I don't know. All I do know is that IMO the
bucket seats in my car are far more comfortable than the leather seats that
were in one of my 2600's.
TBH I just don't like leather seats anyway. I find them hot in the summer.
Lack of ventilation I suppose, compared to cloth, and more slippery into the
bargain.
It's one thing I don't like about my E39. I much prefer the cloth sports
seats in my E34.
Mike.
#5
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:5098860e00dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk... I think that was probably due to the market it was aimed at. Like other SD1's in the range, I believe that having self levelling was seen as a selling point for the more expensive versions. Not for any other reason,.and with the Vitesse they were trying to cater for both the sporty driver and the executive type who might load the car up for a dash to the south of france or wherever. My experience says it's essential if you don't want the rear bottoming. I'm sure that depends on the spring and shock settings. Mine only bottoms under exceptional circumstances. On a road with the sort of undulations one would expect it has never bottomed. Even when quite heavily loaded. |
complete shot to pieces - the rubber completely disintegrated) until I
realised what it was and replaced them.
Believe me, when your bump stops are shot to bits you *really* know (and
hear, and feel) when the back bottoms out all right! And remember, if
the rubber is gone completely that means at least an inch of extra
suspension travel before the the lower spring mount hits the upper with
an almighty clank.
So...
With only myself and Alena in the car, no other load, on quite a number
of ordinary roads with speed bumps or rather noticeable pot holes (but
nothing extreme in the same of being "exceptional circumstances" as you
put it), I could bottom out quite a number of times.
When your bump stops are in good shape you can't always tell when you
bottom out.
So, with the Rimmers yellow uprated "Vitesse ride height" springs and
Spax adjustables (set reasonably hard), bottoming out is not too
difficult to achieve. That is supposedly a roadworthy replacement for
the Nivomat suspension.
Michael
#6
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But you now have a BMW E39? That has a softer ride than even a standard SD1 but handles better. I don't expect you to believe it, but my Vitesse handles better than eiither of my BMW's, even though the E34 has dealer fitted M-Tech suspension. |
standard suspension and wheels.
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What also might make difference, is that I think the Vitesse seats are more comfortable and supportive than those in other models, inc the EFI. Maybe - but the leather ones are the same? AFAIA leather covered bucket seats were never a listed option |
wanted - to order.
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Cloth covered ones were std in the Vitesse. Maybe a few leather covered ones were fitted for special orders. Or maybe a few customers had leather seats out of the EFI fitted or the Vitesse bucket seats recovered.. I don't know. All I do know is that IMO the bucket seats in my car are far more comfortable than the leather seats that were in one of my 2600's. TBH I just don't like leather seats anyway. I find them hot in the summer. Lack of ventilation I suppose, compared to cloth, and more slippery into the bargain. It's one thing I don't like about my E39. I much prefer the cloth sports seats in my E34. Mike. |
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of shit.
Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
#7
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In article <7gt2csF2qgljgU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>, Miike G <postmaster (AT) miktoolman (DOT) plus.net> wrote: But you now have a BMW E39? That has a softer ride than even a standard SD1 but handles better. I don't expect you to believe it, but my Vitesse handles better than eiither of my BMW's, even though the E34 has dealer fitted M-Tech suspension. Ah - that's why you think the Vitesse has a reasonable ride. My E39 has standard suspension and wheels. |
I've given I much prefer a stiff suspension setup.
My E39 also has std suspension, but with 17" wheels, which I believe, at
least from the handbook, was a listed option.
Mike.
#8
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On top of that it rolled more than it did even before when it had a knackered Nivomat. Leading me to believe the springs were simply not hard enough. |
extent, given it attempts to keep a constant ride height.
It's a relatively easy matter to make a car 'handle' well by stiffer
springs etc. Getting a decent ride/handling compromise is the difficult
bit. Which many modern makers with far more sophisticated rear suspension
systems still don't manage. I'm utterly amazed just how hard the ride is
on many modern cars. I have a neighbour with a new BMW 535d - and that is
simply awful over roads I know well.
--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *
Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
#9
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My E39 also has std suspension, but with 17" wheels, which I believe, at least from the handbook, was a listed option. |
--
*If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?
Dave Plowman dave (AT) davenoise (DOT) co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
#10
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In article <7gtjetF2pt18qU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>, Miike G <postmaster (AT) miktoolman (DOT) plus.net> wrote: My E39 also has std suspension, but with 17" wheels, which I believe, at least from the handbook, was a listed option. It is, and spoils the ride. Like most ultra low profile tyres. |
difference noticeable .
Remember, I had a '98 528i as well, before I sold it and kept the one I
have now.
That had std wheels and there was hardly any difference in ride between thr
two. Of course that could have been down to the tyres it had, which were not
particularly good quality, but I don't think that better tyres would have
made a noticeable difference.
Mike.
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