Any company that is making $4 million to $5 million a second
is raping the compliant public that does not have an
alternative. Maybe this is the catalyst that will create
a viable alternative. The new Tesla totally electric using
batteries similar to a cell phones is one possibility.

Nomen Nescio wrote:
The days of the gasoline engine in this country are numbered, IMO. The
public is already getting their collective minds right regarding
hybrids, electrics etc. Once the general public starts voting with
their wallets and buy fuel efficient and/or alternative fuel cars I
think the shift will occur quicker than anyone could have imagined. The
one good thing about all this global warming hype (yes I said hype) is
its intended phase out of gasoline powered vehicles. Personally, I
would love to buy an electric car that gets 300-400 miles on a charge.
Especially if it can recharge to 80% capacity in less than ten minutes.
Keep in mind that you're hearing this wish from a die hard gear head.

We need to reduce our dependence on oil for a number of reasons. Mainly
it is economic because China, India and the rest of the Third World will
be pressuring the oil markets for decades to come. The developed
countries need to use technology to pull ourselves from the oil feeding
frenzy. The public wants this to happen, IMO. I know I do. These high
gas prices might just be the catalyst to get the ball rolling.
Europe's, Canada's, Japan's etc. economies aren't based enough on free
market principles to make the change occur. Our is, and if the public
is given the right alternatives they will force the change to occur.

Hybrid cars are the first step of the change and the public has accepted
them and more models are coming. Once a market develops we will see
more investment occurring by the big automakers to fill a demand for
hybrid, and eventually, electric based cars. If $4-$5 per gallon gas
accelerates this process then at least something good will have come
from our pain at the pump.

On Fri, 18 May 2007 22:32:55 -0400, Michael Johnson <cds (AT) erols (DOT) com>
wrote:

I agreed until the last paragraph.

The public has not accepted hybrids or they would be buying them at a
much faster rate. According to the latest reports, the public is not
happy with several attributes, although they support the concept.
Battery life is still a problem, as is battery weight. Battery
disposal is another problem the public is concerned with. Alternative
fuels is another question mark. The tide is turning, but considerably
slower that hoped for.

The demographics will have a greater impact than price. Younger people
are more open to change and new technologies.

I still have the feeling that Mother Nature will rise up and, in one
way or another, wipe out masses of people around the globe; resetting
the clock in a manner of speaking. Either a pandemic or major war, or
some natural disaster(s) (quakes, tsunamis, vulcanism... something).
Historically, mankind is well overdue for several calamities which may
well reduce the demand for oil. And it may just be a shortage, manmade
or natural, which leads us down that path.

The Wolf With the Red Roses wrote:
If you are so smart then tell me. How many ways can you make a barrel
of oil? How many ways can you generate electricity? If you are smart
enough you'll get my drift. You act like this switch will occur over
night. It won't.

How much have we increased the capacity of the electrical generation and
distribution system in this country over the last 50 years? You think
we can't increase it further in the future?

Spike wrote:
Hybrids are selling well. Their numbers are increasing every year and
even Chevy sells a hybrid pickup now. I equate hybrids somewhat to the
death of carburetors and the advent of computer controlled engines.
Many thought it was the the end of the automobile as we knew it when it
was actually the beginning of a great new era. Hybrids aren't the final
solution, IMO, just the first step in an evolution to electric based
cars. When I say electric based it doesn't necessarily means battery
powered. It could mean fuel cell technology etc.

AS for disposal of batteries that is a minor problem. Just look at all
the waste a gasoline based car generates. There are hundreds of gallons
of used fluids, pollution out the tailpipe, etc. I would wager that an
electric based car has far less harmful waste over its lifetime.
Disposing of one or two sets of batteries would be simple and likely
could be recycled to a great extent.

True but people in my age group are the ones buying the hybrids. Even
my 58 year old brother is thinking of getting one this year or next. It
comes down to reliability and economics, IMO. If the hybrids deliver
more mpg at a decent cost they will sell across all age groups.

Toyota is now selling the Preius is now selling in the low $20k range.
It gets a combined city/highway rating of 55 mpg. It gets 55 mpg in
city driving conditions! I personally know the owner of two Toyota
dealerships and he says they can't get enough Prius' on their lots.
They are sold before they are taken off the truck in most cases. Toyota
being the smart ones are ramping up production to sell as may as they
can for the MSRP.

This is just the beginning of the hybrid revolution, IMO. Since it
looks like gasoline prices will remain high indefinitely I think the
hybrids will become the norm and not the exception until a full electric
becomes viable. The major automakers could have a decent full electric
today if they believed there was a market for it. I think the hybrids
are their test of the viability of an electric car.

Now that is another discussion entirely. As I have said before, our
arrogance as a species is laughable. Well over 99% of all species to
exist on the Earth have suffered extinction and somehow we think we are
different. If we are lucky we might EVOLVE into something that survives
but I doubt it.

On Sat, 19 May 2007 10:44:10 -0400, Michael Johnson <cds (AT) erols (DOT) com>
wrote:

I don't disagree that the change is coming, just that it has a heck of
a long way to go.
We'll get wiped out and cocroaches will have plenty of vehicles to
drive.

Speaking of which.... There is a roach which lives inside things like
televisions, and feeds on the wiring etc. Bet they will love the new
cars. :0)

On Sat, 19 May 2007 04:22:35 -0400, The Wolf With the Red Roses
<Wolf (AT) Red (DOT) com> wrote:

Shouldn't you attribute the siggy quote to Meatloaf?

Spike wrote:
I don't know about that. I think the technology is available today with
the exception of the batteries. If there is a breakthrough in this area
then electric cars that the masses will accept are just a few years off.
Basically these hybrids are capable of being full blown viable
electrics with he right battery technology applied.

I think the advent of electric cars are going to be a God send to us
gear heads. The performance possibilities are huge. Here's a video
that I found entertaining:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18104883452737

Well, lizards had their day, mammals are having there day so it is the
bugs turn next.

I know of a few rats that might give them some competition.

The Wolf With the Red Roses wrote:
Hybrids are an evolutionary answer by allowing a first step into a
different world of automotive technology. I have to hand to the
automakers nowadays, they are making VERY durable and reliable vehicles
across the board. I don't think the hybrids will be much different.
The automakers can't afford them to not be reliable and durable.

The problem totally electric cars have with driving range and refueling
is the reason hybrids even exist. IMO, once the automakers feel the
public wants totally electric cars they will put forth the R&D to
develop viable technology and produce the cars. They just aren't
willing to take the leap yet. Putting the hybrids in the market is them
sticking their toes into the water to test the temperature.

The Wolf With the Red Roses wrote:
Consumption will never decrease without so catastrophic outside
influence on the consumer. I don't see this happening. If we are going
to use energy then I think using a form that can be generated virtually
anywhere using everything from coal, nuclear and oil fired power plants
to wind farms, hydraulic, geothermal, solar, tides, ocean currents is
the right direct for us to head into. Electricity gives every consumer
the option to be a producer. They can feed the grid as well as feed off
it. This isn't possible with oil as it is a one-way process.

Now you are talking about the influence of politics. It isn't that they
can't be built but that they won't build them. After enough brown/black
outs that will change. Everyone is an environmentalist until they can't
make toast, get their email or watch their favorite TV show whenever
they wish.