Another sad state

#31

Scott wrote:

Quote:

You're some kinda jap car whore, aren't you?

Is that a whore who's Japanese and works in cars,
or is that a whore who works in Japanese cars?

Nobody forced Detroit to make cars that look like furniture.

#32

CJB wrote:

Quote:

I wanted to add a comment about Consumer
Reports. Do you realize that their ratings to which you referred are not
scientific? They're derived from the self reporting of their members, who
may themselves be biased. Frankly, I suspect that they are indeed biased.

Not only that, but the sample size is quite small. Did you know that for a
vehicle to have enough data to be rated, there need be only 100 reports on a
model. A sample so small is in no way scientifically accurate.

It depends on how much variation there is in the answers, and when
they get too few responses to be statistically meaningful they
indicate so.

Quote:

common sense alone tells you that a person's bias is going
to sway his ranking of his own car.

For that to matter in the survey, owners of certain cars would have to
be more biased than other owners. Maybe they are, but can you explain
why the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan has recently scored freakishly well
in reliability, compared to other Fords, rating as highly as the most
reliable Japanese cars? Also what about CR's survey of owner
satisfaction, which frequently shows results very different from their
reliability survey (Corvette owners say they love their cars but that
they're problem prone, while Ford Escape owners tend to dislike their
vehicles, despite rating their reliability as better than average).

So why have Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan owners given very high
reliability marks for their cars? No other Ford/Mercury has achieved
such scores in a decade.

Quote:

I'm personally quite weary of people touting CR as the end all and be
all of automotive quality measurement.

But what else is there, except JD Powers? All the other information
is either unreliable (my neighbor said he had no problems with his
Yugo or Mercedes, even though I could hear his Yugo in the distance
because of gear shift noise) or unavailable to the public.

#33

Mike Hunter wrote:

Quote:

I guess it depend on which magazine one chooses to believe. The Focus has
consistently been listed as a "best buy" in several consumer magazines

Which publications that don't charge for the use of their "best buy"
designation or that let members of their editorial staffs work as
consultants, AKA bribe takers, with the auto industry?

#34

Ashton Crusher wrote to dh:

Quote:

Secondly, how do you KNOW that they are not
essentially of equal quality to the Toyota equivalent? Please cite
the FACTUAL basis for your claim, and I don't mean the meaningless
self reporting of people who subscribe to CR. CR can't even get the
same car to have the same ratings when it's sold under two different
nameplates. My Dad has a Pontiac Vibe. Other then the name glued to
the hatchback, its identical to the Toyota Matrix. Yet somehow people
have more problems with the Pontiac Version.

At least not the average Vibe and Matrix owners who've taken part in
CR's annual reliability surveys from 2003-2006 (5=best, 1=worst):

Vibe: 5 5 5 5
Matrix: 4 5 5 5

The reliability ratings for individual components are identical for 49
out of 64 ratings, and where they're different, 10 show the Vibe being
more reliable in some areas, 5 show it being less reliable, and on a
weighted basis it's 11 for the Vibe, 5 for the Matrix.

IOW if these surveys show bias, it's against the Toyota Matrix or in
favor of the Pontiac Vibe.

I see American cars all

Quote:

the time that run to way past 150K without any major repairs but to
hear you drones bitch they all fall apart at 37K. If you look at the
JD power trouble index there's barely enough difference between the
top 20 cars to sneeze at but people make these trivial differences
sound like the end of the world.

But they don't. Ford *could* do it. But they don't.

"dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote

I'd like to think their quality is improving, the new Focus is an
attractive looking car with good performance, specifications and value
but I'm looking for hard evidence of that quality and reliability
improvement before I buy one.

#35

C. E. White wrote to dh:

Quote:

Why do you think a Focus isn't reliable? Even Toyota Reports (errr.. I
mean Consumer Reports) gives the Focus decent reliability marks. The
Focus get the same rating as the Corolla.

No, they don't. For each year from 2001-2006, their overall
reliability rating for the Focus is average, for the Corolla it's well
above average.

OTOH the Focus sedan received a higher overall test score, 77 points,
placing it at the upper range of CR's "very good" bracket, just a
point behind their top rated small car, the Honda Civic, while the
Corolla, at 68 points, was in the middle of that bracket (both
automatics).

#36

Mike Hunter wrote:

Quote:

When I owed my fleet service business we serviced thousands of courier cars
in several states.

The courier fleet favorites were the Koran cars, then the Focus and other
domestics, then the Japs, then the VWs..

Why did they like the Proton (the only car brand produced primarily by
Koran readers) more than the other cars?

#37

Mike Hunter wrote:

Quote:

That is because domestic buyer are smarter.

Some are, some aren't. You're entitled to your opinion if you're
right, but on whole you're wrong, as the average foreign brand buyer
has more education, and it's hard to believe that more education
correlates negatively with IQ.

#38

Mike Hunter wrote:

Quote:

Ten years from now the hybrids of today will languish on
used car lots and be sold to collectors as novelty cars

And be replaced with what?

Another auto engineer, Patrick Bedhard, thinks hybrids are a good
idea, at least if gas costs enough. OTOH he hates electrics,
including plug-in hybrids.

#39

dh wrote:

Quote:

Ten years from today, a decent GM hybrid or electric or piss-fueled or
whatever alternative vehicle will be "just around the corner" and they'll
have a sexy-looking concept at the auto show and Toyota will be selling a
million hybrid or non-gas vehicles in the US every year.

GM's proposed car will probably be something meant to run on nuclear
fusion or unobtainium and have a pushrod engine.

#40

"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly (AT) my-deja (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Mike Hunter wrote:

That is because domestic buyer are smarter.

Some are, some aren't. You're entitled to your opinion if you're
right, but on whole you're wrong, as the average foreign brand buyer
has more education, and it's hard to believe that more education
correlates negatively with IQ.

More education does correlate with more income. That represents a problem
for domestics.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Another sad state

Ford Vehicles Discussions About Ford Cars (alt.autos.ford)

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 12:54 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 01:28 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 01:39 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 02:06 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 02:24 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 02:29 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 02:38 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 02:50 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 02:57 AM

Re: Another sad state - 04-03-2007 , 08:14 AM