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Another sad state
Ford Vehicles Discussions About Ford Cars (alt.autos.ford)
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#41
 
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Re: Another sad state -
04-03-2007
, 12:43 PM
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"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2 (AT) mailcity (DOT) com> wrote in message news  6KdnYmcyNb_HYzbnZ2dnUVZ_uWlnZ2d (AT) ptd (DOT) net...How said the were not reliable? Ten years from now the hybrids of today will languish on used car lots and be sold to collectors as novelty cars LOL mike Ten years from today, a decent GM hybrid or electric or piss-fueled or whatever alternative vehicle will be "just around the corner" and they'll have a sexy-looking concept at the auto show and Toyota will be selling a million hybrid or non-gas vehicles in the US every year. |
is that "novelty" Prius doing, "mike"?
[Reuters Report, April 3]
"DETROIT, April 3 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp.(7203.T: Quote, NEWS ,
Research) on Tuesday said U.S. sales rose 7.7 percent in March, driven by
strong demand for its Prius hybrid."
"The Japanese automaker, expected to challenge General Motors Corp.(GM.N:
Quote, Profile , Research) for the top spot in global sales this year, said
it sold 242,675 vehicles in the United States in March, up from 217,286
vehicles a year earlier."
"Toyota said Prius sales rose more than 133 percent to 19,156 units."
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"Jeff" <jeff (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:%nZPh.133505$_73.127311 (AT) newsread2 (DOT) news.pas.earthlink.net... "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2 (AT) mailcity (DOT) com> wrote in message news:2NGdnVJfMMXon43bnZ2dnUVZ_qarnZ2d (AT) ptd (DOT) net... That is because domestic buyer are smarter. They are not going to spend all that extra money to buy overpriced and underpowered cars when the cars they buy already produce relatively little pollution Better to leave the experimental cars to the tree huggers, they make them feel good and it gives them something to talk about at the country club LOL I don't consider the Japanese hybrid systems experimental. They have been proven to be reliable. Jeff -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#42
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On 3 Apr 2007 00:06:18 -0700, "larry moe 'n curly" larrymoencurly (AT) my-deja (DOT) com> wrote: Ashton Crusher wrote to dh: Secondly, how do you KNOW that they are not essentially of equal quality to the Toyota equivalent? Please cite the FACTUAL basis for your claim, and I don't mean the meaningless self reporting of people who subscribe to CR. CR can't even get the same car to have the same ratings when it's sold under two different nameplates. My Dad has a Pontiac Vibe. Other then the name glued to the hatchback, its identical to the Toyota Matrix. Yet somehow people have more problems with the Pontiac Version. At least not the average Vibe and Matrix owners who've taken part in CR's annual reliability surveys from 2003-2006 (5=best, 1=worst): Vibe: 5 5 5 5 Matrix: 4 5 5 5 The reliability ratings for individual components are identical for 49 out of 64 ratings, and where they're different, 10 show the Vibe being more reliable in some areas, 5 show it being less reliable, and on a weighted basis it's 11 for the Vibe, 5 for the Matrix. IOW if these surveys show bias, it's against the Toyota Matrix or in favor of the Pontiac Vibe. My annual buyers guide shows half a gold star for the Vibe and a full gold star for the Matrix. Identical cars !!!!!! The only reasonable explanation is that Toyota owners fudge their reports to make their cars look better and/or that Pontiac owner fudge to make them look worse. It would certainly fit the pattern shown over and over again on newsgroup discussions. Visit a Honda specific group and all you see are discussions of blown head gaskets yet ask a Honda owner if they ever have trouble and not a single one has ever had to have anything on their car fixed. I see American cars all the time that run to way past 150K without any major repairs but to hear you drones bitch they all fall apart at 37K. If you look at the JD power trouble index there's barely enough difference between the top 20 cars to sneeze at but people make these trivial differences sound like the end of the world. But they don't. Ford *could* do it. But they don't. "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote I'd like to think their quality is improving, the new Focus is an attractive looking car with good performance, specifications and value but I'm looking for hard evidence of that quality and reliability improvement before I buy one. |
sources" you use. Go ahead and live in fantasy land.
#43
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On 3 Apr 2007 00:06:18 -0700, "larry moe 'n curly" larrymoencurly (AT) my-deja (DOT) com> wrote: Ashton Crusher wrote to dh: Secondly, how do you KNOW that they are not essentially of equal quality to the Toyota equivalent? Please cite the FACTUAL basis for your claim, and I don't mean the meaningless self reporting of people who subscribe to CR. CR can't even get the same car to have the same ratings when it's sold under two different nameplates. My Dad has a Pontiac Vibe. Other then the name glued to the hatchback, its identical to the Toyota Matrix. Yet somehow people have more problems with the Pontiac Version. At least not the average Vibe and Matrix owners who've taken part in CR's annual reliability surveys from 2003-2006 (5=best, 1=worst): Vibe: 5 5 5 5 Matrix: 4 5 5 5 The reliability ratings for individual components are identical for 49 out of 64 ratings, and where they're different, 10 show the Vibe being more reliable in some areas, 5 show it being less reliable, and on a weighted basis it's 11 for the Vibe, 5 for the Matrix. IOW if these surveys show bias, it's against the Toyota Matrix or in favor of the Pontiac Vibe. My annual buyers guide shows half a gold star for the Vibe and a full gold star for the Matrix. Identical cars !!!!!! The only reasonable explanation is that Toyota owners fudge their reports to make their cars look better and/or that Pontiac owner fudge to make them look worse. It would certainly fit the pattern shown over and over again on newsgroup discussions. Visit a Honda specific group and all you see are discussions of blown head gaskets yet ask a Honda owner if they ever have trouble and not a single one has ever had to have anything on their car fixed. |
IS the Vibe made with the same parts as the Matrix? IS it serviced by the
same people?
I look at the numbers Larry, Moe 'n' Curly provided and I have to wonder if
Toyota owners are more picky and what makes a perfectly satisfying
experience for a Pontiac owner is not considered satisfying by a Toyota
owner.
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I see American cars all the time that run to way past 150K without any major repairs but to hear you drones bitch they all fall apart at 37K. If you look at the JD power trouble index there's barely enough difference between the top 20 cars to sneeze at but people make these trivial differences sound like the end of the world. But they don't. Ford *could* do it. But they don't. "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote I'd like to think their quality is improving, the new Focus is an attractive looking car with good performance, specifications and value but I'm looking for hard evidence of that quality and reliability improvement before I buy one. |
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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#44
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On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:30:20 -0500, "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote: "C. E. White" <cewhite3 (AT) removemindspring (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4610f505$1 (AT) kcnews01 (DOT) .. "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote in message news:46100a66$1$16292$88260bb3 (AT) free (DOT) teranews.com... Yes. Many magazines do not take repair history into account. It's too bad that Ford won't build a reliable and durable Focus. It's an attractive car, even available in a wagon style and it's hard to find a small wagon on the market, nowadays. I'd consider it, if Ford products didn't suck. Why do you think a Focus isn't reliable? Even Toyota Reports (errr.. I mean Consumer Reports) gives the Focus decent reliability marks. The Focus get the same rating as the Corolla. CR reports on what their subscribers tell them. If you think Toyota owners are buffing up their reports to make their decisions look good, then tell me why Ford owners don't do the same. The Focus also doesn't get the same ratings as the Corolla on Edmunds. They've had more years of practice building the things; they should be doing a better job than Toyota. But they don't. There's the bias again. If Toyota screws up you'll give them a pass. |
I have said that until Toyota screws up, I'll continue to buy them. If
Toyota treats me well, I'll return the favor.
If I end up with problems, I'll have to reconsider. If Ford hadn't screwed
me over, I might be saying the same thing about Ford. But the car was
riddled with problems that they couldn't find or didn't care about and I
have *many* friends with Bad Ford Experiences. I'd be a fool to stick with
Ford after that and I am not a fool.
My GM experiences were nothing to write home about, either. I take pretty
good care of my cars and a dead camshaft at 80K miles does not encourage me
to buy another GM.
I bought my first Toyota, new, because it was the car I wanted at the price
I was willing to pay. After 4 years of perfect satisfaction, I bought
another, taking a chance on a clean used one. Great car. So I bought
another used Toyota. Great car. So I bought another used Toyota. Great
car.
100K miles on 4 cars that average 7 years old with an average of 85K miles
or so on each and no problems. You do whatever you want with your money but
I'm buying more Toyotas.
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But if Ford built just as good a car you bitch it should have been even better, damn it. You people just look for things to criticize and complain about on a domestic car and will excuse every fault on an import. If a tie rod on a ford is defect and there is a recall it's just more evidence of poor quality. When the same thing happens on a Toyota you'll claim it shows how good they are at taking care of their customers!!! I think Toyota is currently recalling around a million vehicles for this kind of safety defect but you don't see nearly the kind of screaming headlines about it as you would if Ford was doing the same. Ford apparently is willing to risk unpleasant owner experiences. Twenty years ago, when the Japanese cars had not made a name for themselves, this was probably not going to hurt them much. Look where it's gotten them today. They've been building that car since 2000. Every one that rolls off the assembly line should be PERFECT and they've had enough failure information to make sure everyone that rolls off the assembly line will last for 300K miles, trouble-free. Toyota has been building essentially the same Corolla for 20 years. Yet more Corollas have been recalled that Foci. What percentage of Corollas will make it to 300,000 miles? But they don't. Ford *could* do it. But they don't. Toyota apparently can't do it. If Toyota wasn't delivering satisfaction, they wouldn't be selling the way they are. I am willing to consider purchasing a domestic car. At the relative prices, who wouldn't? But I check their reliability rankings before I go buy a car and, so far, it's not equal. I'll take my chances with Toy-Onda, thank you. |
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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#45
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On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:25:05 -0500, "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote: "Ashton Crusher" <demi (AT) moore (DOT) net> wrote in message news:squ0131s3k2uf80j1r0q5fajd21fu7rl34 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:30:38 -0500, "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote: "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2 (AT) mailcity (DOT) com> wrote in message news:Sf-dnVzB1PTel43bnZ2dnUVZ_q6vnZ2d (AT) ptd (DOT) net... I guess it depend on which magazine one chooses to believe. The Focus has consistently been listed as a "best buy" in several consumer magazines mike Yes. Many magazines do not take repair history into account. I value reliability. I don't have time to screw around with a car that doesn't run right in all respects, so if there's a noticeable difference in reliability, it's of importance to me. That's the point, there is no noticeable difference. You'd have to be buying cars by the hundreds at a time to even see the statistical difference show up between a "good" car that has 1 problem in a years time and the "bad" car that has 1.3 problems in a years time. Others may be more tolerant. That's their lookout. But they don't. Ford *could* do it. But they don't. "dh" <dh (AT) stargate (DOT) com> wrote I'd like to think their quality is improving, the new Focus is an attractive looking car with good performance, specifications and value but I'm looking for hard evidence of that quality and reliability improvement before I buy one. |
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