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  #1  
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Joek
 
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Default Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-16-2007 , 09:40 AM







Hello All,

I have a ten year old Taurus. The first seven years the AC was like
new, but after that I've had repair done for the last three summers
(leak sealing procedure and cooling agent replaced). It's happening
again this summer. I used it three or four times and it's only
slightly cool.

What can be done? Can this AC be restored to new? Is it normal to
need repair every summer?

Joek In Jersey


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  #2  
Old   
trainfan1
 
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Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-16-2007 , 10:22 AM






Joek wrote:
Quote:
Hello All,

I have a ten year old Taurus. The first seven years the AC was like
new, but after that I've had repair done for the last three summers
(leak sealing procedure and cooling agent replaced). It's happening
again this summer. I used it three or four times and it's only
slightly cool.

What can be done? Can this AC be restored to new? Is it normal to
need repair every summer?

Joek In Jersey

It will keep happening until you actually make the repair. The "leak
sealing procedure" is less than a band-aid - it will never "heal".

On the Taurus, the "Condensor-to-Evaporator Tube" is the usual suspect,
especially when you can't easily find the leak. It runs along the right
side frame rail in the engine compartment, covered in a foam insulator tube.

Rob


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  #3  
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Bruce L. Bergman
 
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Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-16-2007 , 10:30 AM



On 16 May 2007 07:40:30 -0700, Joek <jkoziate (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello All,

I have a ten year old Taurus. The first seven years the AC was like
new, but after that I've had repair done for the last three summers
(leak sealing procedure and cooling agent replaced). It's happening
again this summer. I used it three or four times and it's only
slightly cool.

What can be done? Can this AC be restored to new? Is it normal to
need repair every summer?

Joek In Jersey
Depends on what the "leak sealing procedure" was. If the crankshaft
bearings in the AC compressor are shot and wobbling, or the shaft is
scored where it goes through the seal and it leaks even with the seal
replaced, it's time for a remanufactured compressor.

All the components and hoses are replaceable, it's in the labor
needed to correctly identify the problem part(s) and replace them -
without breaking something else.

The only place that sealants can be used is on the joints between
lines and hoses (LineLock sealant, works like Permatex #2) and that's
only a palliative - you're supposed to replace or re-anneal the soft
copper gaskets, or change out the line that has a cracked/scratched
flare sealing surface.

Sealant compounds that go in the refrigerant (like Bar's Leak in the
radiator) can't work - they would clog the small channels in the
metering orifice (or expansion valve) that would look just like a big
leak to anything floating through. Or get caught in the filter/drier
filter media.

You have to be Very Careful with the fittings on the refrigerant
lines and the cores, if you don't use two flare-nut wrenches correctly
the aluminum tubing twists and it's all over. Aluminum will develop
fatigue cracks when bent and Pssssssss...

The evaporator core is the one killer component - it's in the heater
box, and in most Fords you practically have to dismantle the entire
dashboard and interior of the car to change them. If you have to do
that get a new heater core installed at the same time, because
Murphy's Law says next year it springs a leak.

--<< Bruce >>--



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  #4  
Old   
MG
 
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Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-18-2007 , 05:01 PM



Does this seem to be more of an issue since the change from R12 to R134? I
never has A/C problems in the past like I do now.

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman (AT) earthlink (DOT) invalid> wrote

Quote:
On 16 May 2007 07:40:30 -0700, Joek <jkoziate (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:


Hello All,

I have a ten year old Taurus. The first seven years the AC was like
new, but after that I've had repair done for the last three summers
(leak sealing procedure and cooling agent replaced). It's happening
again this summer. I used it three or four times and it's only
slightly cool.

What can be done? Can this AC be restored to new? Is it normal to
need repair every summer?

Joek In Jersey

Depends on what the "leak sealing procedure" was. If the crankshaft
bearings in the AC compressor are shot and wobbling, or the shaft is
scored where it goes through the seal and it leaks even with the seal
replaced, it's time for a remanufactured compressor.

All the components and hoses are replaceable, it's in the labor
needed to correctly identify the problem part(s) and replace them -
without breaking something else.

The only place that sealants can be used is on the joints between
lines and hoses (LineLock sealant, works like Permatex #2) and that's
only a palliative - you're supposed to replace or re-anneal the soft
copper gaskets, or change out the line that has a cracked/scratched
flare sealing surface.

Sealant compounds that go in the refrigerant (like Bar's Leak in the
radiator) can't work - they would clog the small channels in the
metering orifice (or expansion valve) that would look just like a big
leak to anything floating through. Or get caught in the filter/drier
filter media.

You have to be Very Careful with the fittings on the refrigerant
lines and the cores, if you don't use two flare-nut wrenches correctly
the aluminum tubing twists and it's all over. Aluminum will develop
fatigue cracks when bent and Pssssssss...

The evaporator core is the one killer component - it's in the heater
box, and in most Fords you practically have to dismantle the entire
dashboard and interior of the car to change them. If you have to do
that get a new heater core installed at the same time, because
Murphy's Law says next year it springs a leak.

--<< Bruce >>--



--
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  #5  
Old   
Bruce L. Bergman
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-18-2007 , 09:10 PM



On Fri, 18 May 2007 18:01:49 -0400, "MG" <m@m.org> wrote:

Quote:
Does this seem to be more of an issue since the change from R12 to R134? I
never has A/C problems in the past like I do now.
The only reason it may be more prevalent is that R-134a normal
operating pressures are much higher than R-12. I don't have the
charts handy, but from memory it's something like a jump from 180 PSI
on the high-side of an R-12 system to 300+ PSI for R-134a.

That, and they may be trying to use the same thickness of aluminum
tubing for the cores and connecting lines of newer cars (or even
shaving a few thou off the wall thickness to save weight and money)
even with the higher running pressures. Which would make them a bit
more likely to develop little porosity leaks and/or fatigue cracks and
big leaks.

Haven't stopped to research it, though.

--<< Bruce >>--



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  #6  
Old   
Tom Adkins
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-18-2007 , 09:12 PM



MG wrote:
Quote:
Does this seem to be more of an issue since the change from R12 to R134? I
never has A/C problems in the past like I do now.

No, it's been more of an issue since Ford introduced Spring Lock couplers for the AC
lines. I see they are moving away from them in recent years.


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  #7  
Old   
MG
 
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Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-19-2007 , 04:31 PM




"Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman (AT) earthlink (DOT) invalid> wrote

Quote:
On Fri, 18 May 2007 18:01:49 -0400, "MG" <m@m.org> wrote:

Does this seem to be more of an issue since the change from R12 to R134?
I
never has A/C problems in the past like I do now.

The only reason it may be more prevalent is that R-134a normal
operating pressures are much higher than R-12. I don't have the
charts handy, but from memory it's something like a jump from 180 PSI
on the high-side of an R-12 system to 300+ PSI for R-134a.

That, and they may be trying to use the same thickness of aluminum
tubing for the cores and connecting lines of newer cars (or even
shaving a few thou off the wall thickness to save weight and money)
even with the higher running pressures. Which would make them a bit
more likely to develop little porosity leaks and/or fatigue cracks and
big leaks.

Haven't stopped to research it, though.

--<< Bruce >>--

Obviously my observation is completely anecdotal. But it does seem like
leaks and corrosion are more frequent.

mg




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  #8  
Old   
Tom
 
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Default Re: Recurring Problem With Air Conditioning - 05-19-2007 , 04:47 PM



well, since a 10 year old taurus came from the factory with R134-A
refrigerant, there would be no issue to deal with unless for some unknown
stupid reason someone converted it to R12
"MG" <m@m.org> wrote

Quote:
Does this seem to be more of an issue since the change from R12 to R134?
I never has A/C problems in the past like I do now.

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman (AT) earthlink (DOT) invalid> wrote in message
news:ip7m43lf7roikahqfj82sn8nb829u1ftrf (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
On 16 May 2007 07:40:30 -0700, Joek <jkoziate (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:


Hello All,

I have a ten year old Taurus. The first seven years the AC was like
new, but after that I've had repair done for the last three summers
(leak sealing procedure and cooling agent replaced). It's happening
again this summer. I used it three or four times and it's only
slightly cool.

What can be done? Can this AC be restored to new? Is it normal to
need repair every summer?

Joek In Jersey

Depends on what the "leak sealing procedure" was. If the crankshaft
bearings in the AC compressor are shot and wobbling, or the shaft is
scored where it goes through the seal and it leaks even with the seal
replaced, it's time for a remanufactured compressor.

All the components and hoses are replaceable, it's in the labor
needed to correctly identify the problem part(s) and replace them -
without breaking something else.

The only place that sealants can be used is on the joints between
lines and hoses (LineLock sealant, works like Permatex #2) and that's
only a palliative - you're supposed to replace or re-anneal the soft
copper gaskets, or change out the line that has a cracked/scratched
flare sealing surface.

Sealant compounds that go in the refrigerant (like Bar's Leak in the
radiator) can't work - they would clog the small channels in the
metering orifice (or expansion valve) that would look just like a big
leak to anything floating through. Or get caught in the filter/drier
filter media.

You have to be Very Careful with the fittings on the refrigerant
lines and the cores, if you don't use two flare-nut wrenches correctly
the aluminum tubing twists and it's all over. Aluminum will develop
fatigue cracks when bent and Pssssssss...

The evaporator core is the one killer component - it's in the heater
box, and in most Fords you practically have to dismantle the entire
dashboard and interior of the car to change them. If you have to do
that get a new heater core installed at the same time, because
Murphy's Law says next year it springs a leak.

--<< Bruce >>--




--
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