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Embarrassing for CART
Formula 1 Formula 1 motor racing discusions (rec.autos.sport.f1)
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#21
 
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Re: Embarrassing for CART -
08-19-2006
, 09:46 PM
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Mark <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote: You miss the point. A lot of people go and watch CART races as they are led to believe that the cars are fast. The F1 demonstration indicates that they aren't that fast, and if people really want to see a spectacle they need to go to an F1 race. Depends what you're going for. If you want to see a *race*, go and watch Champcar. If you want to see technology and egos, and pay homage to the self-appointed, self-important "pinnacle" of the sport, go and see F1. Give me Champcar any time. It still contains traces of humanity. pete -- pete (AT) fenelon (DOT) com "I once coaxed a dog into a library" - Tommy Saxondale |
really fast but the new tracks are crap and it is not at all fun. F1
has some tremendous drivers like Kimi and Alonso but it is like their
talent is wasted. Bernie and Max have ruined F1 and the series is
hugely overrated now.
You still have a few exciting races in F1, particularly when Spa is on
the roster. Champcar with some work and a bit better drivers could put
on a great show at Spa. Alternatively, if they ran Champcar at one of
the new Tilkedromes it would just as boring as F1 is.
#22
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You miss the point. A lot of people go and watch CART races as they are led to believe that the cars are fast. The F1 demonstration indicates that they aren't that fast, and if people really want to see a spectacle they need to go to an F1 race. |
How the heck does a car that is only a few seconds slower than F1
suddenly become "not that fast?" Champcars are one of the faster
formula running. Besides, the current F1 spec is stupidly slow compared
to how fast it could be with just a few relaxed regs.
Even if the absolute performance delta was larger, who cares if one
vehicle can accelerate, say, 20% harder? At most tracks spectators are
so far away, they can't tell the difference. I haven't been to a CART
race in some time, but the cars were PLENTY impressive at Laguna last I
looked. Assuming F1 ever made it to Monterey, I doubt they would be any
more entertaining. Hell, even the vintage races (bummed to be missing
this weekend) are plenty fun. The old F1 sleds have SO much more
character than the modern, all-too-generic cars.
MotoGP is MUCH slower than either, and still absolutely KILLs them both
in terms of 'spactacle' and actual racing. Go figure...
-Greg
#23
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You miss the point. A lot of people go and watch CART races as they are led to believe that the cars are fast. |
--
Paul-B
#24
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"Mark" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message news:5uidnWNBxbHm0HrZnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com... "Pete Fenelon" <pete (AT) fenelon (DOT) com> wrote in message news  bsjr3-6in1.ln1 (AT) stratos (DOT) fenelon.com...Mark <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote: From F1-live: After one installation lap today on the 11-turn, 2.238 mile Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Toyota F1 driver Ricardo Zonta easily set a new track record on his second flying lap with at 1:07:587 at 119.206 mph. This time and speed edges the previous record of 1:07.722 set by Helio Castroneves at the CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey in 2000. So? Champcar's technical spec has essentially been frozen since 2000, in fact they've deliberately detuned the engines a couple of times... I would've been profoundly shocked if a new car on which the Gross National Product of Afghanistan is spent every year can't do better than a six year old customer car! You miss the point. A lot of people go and watch CART races as they are led to believe that the cars are fast. The F1 demonstration indicates that they aren't that fast, and if people really want to see a spectacle they need to go to an F1 race. If you want fast then go to an NHRA drag race. They are fast. |
#25
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You still have a few exciting races in F1, particularly when Spa is on the roster. |
race going at Spa and that was a bit of a mouth-watering prospect --
fifteen or so old boys from the days when you had to *drive* F1 cars
round Spa in what amounts to a Champcar with a bigger non-turbo engine?
I would've paid to see that!
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Champcar with some work and a bit better drivers could put on a great show at Spa. Alternatively, if they ran Champcar at one of the new Tilkedromes it would just as boring as F1 is. |
without causing as much "dirty air", and, as long as Paul Tracy isn't
Oh and btw: things I'd like to see in racing, vol. 94 - Paul Tracy
vs Michael Schumacher. Not for the talent (admittedly there's a lot
there) but for the self-righteousness after the inevitable "incident"!
pete
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pete (AT) fenelon (DOT) com "I once coaxed a dog into a library" - Tommy Saxondale
#26
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Seems like that embarrasses the living shit out of a F1 car. An F1 car that doesn't have to run in race trim and costs 50 times a CART car barely beat the time of a six year old CART car running in race trim? |
CART-laps with a few demo laps, during which it is unlikely that the
car would be driven anywhere near its absolute limits. if you measure
this in money, time and effort, the F1 car casually strolled in, beat
the CARTs and strolled out again.
hardly an embarrassment.
-Bjørn
#27
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"Pete Fenelon" <pete (AT) fenelon (DOT) com> wrote in message news bsjr3-6in1.ln1 (AT) stratos (DOT) fenelon.com...Mark <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote: From F1-live: After one installation lap today on the 11-turn, 2.238 mile Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Toyota F1 driver Ricardo Zonta easily set a new track record on his second flying lap with at 1:07:587 at 119.206 mph. This time and speed edges the previous record of 1:07.722 set by Helio Castroneves at the CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey in 2000. So? Champcar's technical spec has essentially been frozen since 2000, in fact they've deliberately detuned the engines a couple of times... I would've been profoundly shocked if a new car on which the Gross National Product of Afghanistan is spent every year can't do better than a six year old customer car! You miss the point. A lot of people go and watch CART races as they are led to believe that the cars are fast. |
The F1 demonstration indicates that they
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aren't that fast, and if people really want to see a spectacle they need to go to an F1 race. |
For thrilling motor racing, FF1600 used to be the top for years. Even with a
top speed on-track of "only" 130mph or so.
Doc
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pete -- pete (AT) fenelon (DOT) com "I once coaxed a dog into a library" - Tommy Saxondale |
#28
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After one installation lap today on the 11-turn, 2.238 mile Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Toyota F1 driver Ricardo Zonta easily set a new track record on his second flying lap with at 1:07:587 at 119.206 mph. This time and speed edges the previous record of 1:07.722 set by Helio Castroneves at the CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey in 2000. So? Champcar's technical spec has essentially been frozen since 2000, in fact they've deliberately detuned the engines a couple of times... I would've been profoundly shocked if a new car on which the Gross National Product of Afghanistan is spent every year can't do better than a six year old customer car! You miss the point. A lot of people go and watch CART races as they are led to believe that the cars are fast. The F1 demonstration indicates that they aren't that fast, and if people really want to see a spectacle they need to go to an F1 race. You really are a dumb unclefucker. According to your dipshit mind, F1 is fast, but F1 - .1 of a second isn't fast. Go away, fucktard. |
I would've thought that Alonso, Kimi or MS, with the right tyres after
three days of optimisation and setup, would be able to take 4-5 seconds
off that time, on low fuel towards the end of a stint. In fact, I
wouldn't be suprised to see a sub 1-minute time.
--
ric at pixelligence dot com
#29
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"Jeff Taylor" <jefftaylor (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:MPG.1f5146b3e7376aed98a311 (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... Mark <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote: After one installation lap today on the 11-turn, 2.238 mile Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Toyota F1 driver Ricardo Zonta easily set a new track record on his second flying lap with at 1:07:587 at 119.206 mph. This time and speed edges the previous record of 1:07.722 set by Helio Castroneves at the CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey in 2000. A multi-million dollar, custom made 2006 F1 car beats the record of a $250,000 2000 Champ Car by just over 1/10th of a second, and you call that an embarrassment to 'CART' (which hasn't existed in 3 years, BTW)? What planet are you on? Exactly, if anything this is embarrassing for F1 and Toyota. They should be seconds quicker not 10ths.. |
goes, without doing any setup work, on cold tyres?
--
Phil
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html
#30
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And? Relevance to my comments? |
Had you looked at the track records for the Montreal, you'd see that
the F1 cars are 5 seconds faster than CART.
I don't think the F1 Toyota has been really 'tweaked' for the Laguna
Seca circuit do you?
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