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OT - Sorry
Formula 1 Formula 1 motor racing discusions (rec.autos.sport.f1)
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#21
 
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Re: OT - Sorry -
09-13-2005
, 10:02 AM
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"Probert" <nick.wf1commdept2 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote in news:1126575120.7352.0 (AT) damia (DOT) uk.clara.net: Aussie Cricket captain, Ricky 'Punter' Ponting, starts the Ashes Test series with a bee-in-his-bonnett about England's (entirely legal) use of substitute fielders. This is, of course, a tactic the Aussie's wouldn't dream of using themselves (unless they want to, but Clarkey doesn't count, apparently). Bollocks. Yours is a simplified and factually inaccurate summary of events. Clarke's injury is genuine. |
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As the series progresses - and Australia start to get into a losing position - the subs issue really starts to get to Punter. By the time the 4th test comes around, Punter's in a real tizz over it and during Australia's 1st innings, England's best bowler, the Welshman Simon Jones, has an injury that gets progressively worse as the day goes on, eventually forcing him from the field and into hospital for a scan. It's not Jones' injury that was the problem. It's when Matthew Hoggard and Steve Harmison went off for little more than breathers and massages. This, is questionable when it comes to legality, and most definitely not in the spirit of the game. Ponting just happened to erupt at a time when Jones was off the field. |
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Naturally, England bring on a sub-fielder (who isn't allowed to do anything other than field). At this point Punter's batting. Soon one or other of the 2 Aussie batsmen calls for a tight run with the ball going straight to the sub-fielder who immediately picks up and throws down the wicket Punter's heading towards... and Punter doesn't make it in time. Bring in the man who has been named as 12th man, not someone from outside the 12 man squad. |
morning. It's the age old problem: club vs. country. What happens to the
12th man in Oz when a touring team visits?
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Now, the substitute fielder - who just, by chance of course, happens to be one of the best fielders in England - is called......... Gary Pratt. If he was named as 12th man in the squad, then I wouldn't have a problem with it, and neither would the Australian team. |
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And with this single moment of fielding genius just might have turned the series totally England's way, as Punter never quite recovered either his dignity or former poise. We had lost it before we won at Lords, as our preparation was disappointingly inadequate. Fielding errors (very un-Australian), batting collapses (very un-Australian) and bowling short-comings (very un-Australian) cost us throughout the series. |
with the bowling). KP dropped 9 catches, we collapsed when trying to bat
for a draw at the Oval and also for a win at Trentbridge.
I think some of your shortcomings are also part of the reason for your
success. Warne and McGrath are in the twighlight of their careers and
you will really struggle to replace the 2 of them, probably at the same
time. There's nobody in the world to touch Warne - without him I think
you'd have been decimated this series, his batting, his bowling and
general leadership by example was outstanding.
Because the team have been so successful it seems that it's been all but
impossible for younger players (bowlers in particular) to push their way
into the side. I think you've got the Windies over soon, and I'd be
tempted to blood some new players in that series - they're nothing like
the windies of old.
Cheers
Graham
--
Make a little birdhouse in your soul...
#22
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It's not Jones' injury that was the problem. It's when Matthew Hoggard and Steve Harmison went off for little more than breathers and massages. This, is questionable when it comes to legality, and most definitely not in the spirit of the game. Ponting just happened to erupt at a time when Jones was off the field. |
100% legal use of substitutes so that people can go to the toilet (and
no more - talk of massages is baseless rubbish) is not in the spirit of
the game, but relentlessly sledging batsmen is all fair and fully part
of it?
--
Phil
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html
#23
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Matthew Pope wrote: It's not Jones' injury that was the problem. It's when Matthew Hoggard and Steve Harmison went off for little more than breathers and massages. This, is questionable when it comes to legality, and most definitely not in the spirit of the game. Ponting just happened to erupt at a time when Jones was off the field. Oh, come on. Pull the other one, for indeed, it has got bells on it. The 100% legal use of substitutes so that people can go to the toilet (and no more - talk of massages is baseless rubbish) is not in the spirit of the game, but relentlessly sledging batsmen is all fair and fully part of it? |
high bouncers solely to try and injure the batsman... seems to me to be
completely against what the game should be about. And yet our
commentators here heap praises when the bowler manages to hit the
batsman in the face or elsewher.
But hey-ho, I feel the same about the superfast serves which are made
in pro-tennis nowadays, and result in strings of aces... the original
purpose of the serve was purely to get the ball into play, but now
games can be wone or lost on whether or not the server can launch the
ball at such a speed and into a mark on the court which means it's
almost impossible to return.
Which makes me an old fart, but... that's the way it is.
And don't get me started about the arch-foulmouth Rooney, who seems to
be able to do and say exactly what he wants without fear of being
penalised.
--
Paul-B... the original and the best!
#24
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I have to say that I deplore the tactics (on both sides) of bowling high bouncers solely to try and injure the batsman... seems to me to be completely against what the game should be about. And yet our commentators here heap praises when the bowler manages to hit the batsman in the face or elsewher. |
Ideally, it should hit glove, not head, seeing as you can't be caught
off the helmet, but the practice of bowling at people's heads is one
that goes with the modern game - it's an intimidatory tactic designed to
get the batsman to spend more time thinking about how best to get out of
the way than how to score runs. Consider the manner in which Harmison
removed Langer in Australia's second innings - he bowled him a few good,
accurate bouncers, then a perfect length ball which Langer played onto
his stumps. I don't have a problem with that - it's aggressive and
exciting, and the rules don't allow them to bowl too many short balls in
an over. Plus if they get it wrong, as Lee and McGrath did to Pietersen
yesterday, short balls are an excellent source of 4s and 6s for a
batsman who sees them coming and stands his ground.
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But hey-ho, I feel the same about the superfast serves which are made in pro-tennis nowadays, and result in strings of aces... the original purpose of the serve was purely to get the ball into play, but now games can be wone or lost on whether or not the server can launch the ball at such a speed and into a mark on the court which means it's almost impossible to return. |
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Which makes me an old fart, but... that's the way it is. And don't get me started about the arch-foulmouth Rooney, who seems to be able to do and say exactly what he wants without fear of being penalised. |
FIFA, referees would be told to give a player who swears or shows
dissent a yellow card, and anyone crowding the referee gets told twice
to "Go away" and then they get a yellow card too. If it results in 6
months of 5-a-side football in the Premiership, so be it - they'd soon
learn.
--
Phil
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html
#25
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Paul-B wrote: I have to say that I deplore the tactics (on both sides) of bowling high bouncers solely to try and injure the batsman... seems to me to be completely against what the game should be about. And yet our commentators here heap praises when the bowler manages to hit the batsman in the face or elsewher. I think the aim of a good bouncer is to bowl an unplayable ball. Ideally, it should hit glove, not head, seeing as you can't be caught off the helmet, but the practice of bowling at people's heads is one that goes with the modern game - it's an intimidatory tactic designed to get the batsman to spend more time thinking about how best to get out of the way than how to score runs. Consider the manner in which Harmison removed Langer in Australia's second innings - he bowled him a few good, accurate bouncers, then a perfect length ball which Langer played onto his stumps. I don't have a problem with that - it's aggressive and exciting, and the rules don't allow them to bowl too many short balls in an over. Plus if they get it wrong, as Lee and McGrath did to Pietersen yesterday, short balls are an excellent source of 4s and 6s for a batsman who sees them coming and stands his ground. |
the players today have the protection that wasn't common 70years ago...
Cheers
Graham
--
Make a little birdhouse in your soul...
#26
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Phil Newnham wrote: Paul-B wrote: I have to say that I deplore the tactics (on both sides) of bowling high bouncers solely to try and injure the batsman... seems to me to be completely against what the game should be about. And yet our commentators here heap praises when the bowler manages to hit the batsman in the face or elsewher. I think the aim of a good bouncer is to bowl an unplayable ball. Ideally, it should hit glove, not head, seeing as you can't be caught off the helmet, but the practice of bowling at people's heads is one that goes with the modern game - it's an intimidatory tactic designed to get the batsman to spend more time thinking about how best to get out of the way than how to score runs. Consider the manner in which Harmison removed Langer in Australia's second innings - he bowled him a few good, accurate bouncers, then a perfect length ball which Langer played onto his stumps. I don't have a problem with that - it's aggressive and exciting, and the rules don't allow them to bowl too many short balls in an over. Plus if they get it wrong, as Lee and McGrath did to Pietersen yesterday, short balls are an excellent source of 4s and 6s for a batsman who sees them coming and stands his ground. Harold Larwood mean anything to anyone? It's not a modern thing and the players today have the protection that wasn't common 70years ago... |
the Schumacher swerve is to F1...
--
Paul-B... the original and the best!
#27
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Graham Hodgson wrote: Harold Larwood mean anything to anyone? It's not a modern thing and the players today have the protection that wasn't common 70years ago... I'm aware of the bodyline furore... I suppose it was to Cricket what the Schumacher swerve is to F1... |
the fuss - in my day they used to give us bats to defend ourselves
with". :-)
--
Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K.
jeff (AT) xjackfieldx (DOT) org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there..
.... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."
Henry James, (1843 - 1916).
#28
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But hey-ho, I feel the same about the superfast serves which are made in pro-tennis nowadays, and result in strings of aces... the original purpose of the serve was purely to get the ball into play, but now games can be wone or lost on whether or not the server can launch the ball at such a speed and into a mark on the court which means it's almost impossible to return. This, I agree with, mainly because it makes mens tennis very dull to watch. What tennis needs is more Federers. Take his serve away and he'd still |
weak points. The guy is a freak and one almost feels sorry for his
opponents even before the game starts.
Ladies tennis is good, if only Sharapova and the Williams sisters were
made to wear a mouth gag while they play.
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Football players really get it easy in general. If I was in charge of FIFA, referees would be told to give a player who swears or shows dissent a yellow card, and anyone crowding the referee gets told twice to "Go away" and then they get a yellow card too. If it results in 6 months of 5-a-side football in the Premiership, so be it - they'd soon learn. That's how it used to be when i played. If i'd have said something |
reprimand later. It was only U18 comp though..
--
Regards, Frank
#29
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Harold Larwood mean anything to anyone? It's *not* a modern thing and the players today have the protection that wasn't common 70years ago... |
different, and that the field setting was almost as important as the
bowling? It was a lot more controversial then than bowling bouncers is
now, but then so was showing a bit of flesh on TV...
--
Phil
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html
#30
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And one of our best bowlers being sidelined wasn't? |
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It's not Jones' injury that was the problem.. |
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Would he have done it if they were 3-0 up in the series? |
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The 12th man disappears off to play county cricket on the Thursday morning. It's the age old problem: club vs. country. What happens to the 12th man in Oz when a touring team visits? |
Brett Lee missed an entire summer of Australian domestic cricket because he
was 12th man for every test played in Oz.
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Almost sounds like a bunch of whinging poms... |
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I'd say England had 2 out of 3 of those problems as well (think we coped with the bowling). KP dropped 9 catches, we collapsed when trying to bat for a draw at the Oval and also for a win at Trentbridge. |
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