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Qualifying is still crap
Formula 1 Formula 1 motor racing discusions (rec.autos.sport.f1)
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#21
 
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Re: Qualifying is still crap -
05-17-2007
, 04:51 AM
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David Melville wrote: In article <464bd906.1832270359 (AT) news (DOT) snap.net.nz>, Mark (AT) Jones (DOT) co.nz says... On 17 May 2007 03:10:13 +0300, Phil Carmody thefatphil_demunged (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: "Von Fourche" <Khonakong (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> writes: "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message news:464b337b$0$27182$742ec2ed (AT) news (DOT) sonic.net... I still think the qualifying is crap. The first two sessions are OK but the >> >last session should be run single car, one lap. The problem is, when >> >everyone is out on their final hot lap the television is watching the start >> >finish line. BORING! And I'm still tired of the race-fuel qualifying, even >> >if they do get to burn it off. It's all so stupid, really. Qualifying was changed because of the Schumacher/Ferrari domination. >> There was really nothing wrong with the 12 total laps/one hour format. So you found 24 minutes of completely empty track interesing? Maybe they should combine practice and qualfying again? That way there'll always be something happening. Why not split the field into four equal groups according to Championship ranking and mandate each team in each group perform at least x laps during a specified 15 minute period of qualy? So, bottom feeders must run x laps between Q0:00 and Q0:15, 2nd from bottom, x laps between Q0:15 and Q0:30, etc. All teams are free to use the track at any time during the session for setup and reconnaisance. Qualifying times may be set at any time during the hour. First it is a return to low fuel qualifying |
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which is a big backward step. How so? |
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Secondly it seems a good way for the broadcaster to miss nearly all the qualifying laps and perhaps a return to following the local boy(s) or WDC contenders the full hour mainly on their inlaps. Um.... I would have thought it would make it rather easier to get in all |
Oh, and get rid of the blue flag paranoia brigade.
--
Dave
"I wish that this were not our problem."
- Australian Prime Minister John Howard showing
compassion for refugees... an "Australian Value"
#22
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David Melville wrote: In article <xn0f6b6137d95lq00h (AT) news (DOT) individual.net>, bigbird.usenet (AT) gmail (DOT) com says... David Melville wrote: In article <464bd906.1832270359 (AT) news (DOT) snap.net.nz>, Mark (AT) Jones (DOT) co.nz says... On 17 May 2007 03:10:13 +0300, Phil Carmody thefatphil_demunged (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: "Von Fourche" <Khonakong (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> writes: "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message news:464b337b$0$27182$742ec2ed (AT) news (DOT) sonic.net... I still think the qualifying is crap. The first two sessions are OK but the >> >last session should be run single car, one lap. The problem is, when >> >everyone is out on their final hot lap the television is watching the start >> >finish line. BORING! And I'm still tired of the race-fuel qualifying, even if they do get to burn it off. It's all so stupid, really. Qualifying was changed because of the Schumacher/Ferrari domination. >> There was really nothing wrong with the 12 total laps/one hour format. So you found 24 minutes of completely empty track interesing? Maybe they should combine practice and qualfying again? That way there'll always be something happening. Why not split the field into four equal groups according to Championship ranking and mandate each team in each group perform at least x laps during a specified 15 minute period of qualy? So, bottom feeders must run x laps between Q0:00 and Q0:15, 2nd from bottom, x laps between Q0:15 and Q0:30, etc. All teams are free to use the track at any time during the session for setup and reconnaisance. Qualifying times may be set at any time during the hour. First it is a return to low fuel qualifying Fantastic. Exactly! which is a big backward step. How so? It's old ground but... For e.g. say the Ferrari is on pole at Barcelona and has an open choice of what strategy to run, you are third on the grid how do you go about choosing your strategy? Same way they did in the "old days", FFS. These guys get paid for |
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If you choose the optimum but are a lot lighter you are compromised until your first pitstop handing the race to the Ferrari. If you compromise and are a lot heavier than the optimum you are slower over race distance. It is all about second guessing the other cars strategy. Yeah. So? I don't see the difference between the two. As long as there |
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Currently with qualifying pace more representative of relative start pace you still have the opportunity to run your own race/pace. {snip] Didn't you just contradict yourself? |
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--
Dave
"I wish that this were not our problem."
- Australian Prime Minister John Howard showing
compassion for refugees... an "Australian Value"
#23
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Colonel K wrote: Mark Jones wrote: On Wed, 16 May 2007 23:56:11 +0100, "Knight who says \"Ni!\"" spamalot@camelot> wrote: just bob wrote: "Bigbird" <bigbird.usenet (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0f6a5zg6hjdg700b (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... just bob wrote: "Paul-B" <paul (AT) rasf1 (DOT) net> wrote in message news:5b0s4cF2pr5qbU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net... Bigbird wrote: just bob wrote: I still think the qualifying is crap. The first two sessions are OK >>> but the last session should be run single car, one lap. The >>>>>problem >>> is, when everyone is out on their final hot lap the >>>>>television is >>> watching the start finish line. BORING! And I'm >>>>>still tired of the >>> race-fuel qualifying, even if they do get to >>>>>burn it off. It's all >>> so stupid, really. The later half of Q3 is almost as exciting as qualifying ever was at it's best, add back Q1 and Q2 and, while we don't get the single all out low fuel lap, I reckon this is the one aspect of todays F1 that they have got right. Q1 and Q2 are fine as they are, but watching a line of F1 cars circling to burn off fuel is a drag. I agreed Q1 and Q2 are fine. But what about none of the final hot laps being shown - all we get is a shot of the start finish line as the cars cross? It's crap. Race fuel qualifying is the only that makes sense, so without changing that aspect, your suggestions are? Re: Fuel, I guess I'm the only one who wants to see the cars on running on fumes and thus at the limit, running out of gas on the cool down lap and all that stuff we used to have. I don't know how to change it to see more fast laps other than do single-car. Not too many years ago you would see an hour of qual and chances were, barring sudden rain or track drying, over that hour you would see a lot of drivers on their fastest laps. The problem now is the current scheme has everyone doing their fastest lap in the final two minutes. I do not fault the tv production: what else can they show? If in the final minutes say four cars are potential pole winners and since it is impossible to follow all of them, the producer follows the first car all the way to the line and then stays on that shot for the other three cars. If the producer decides to break tradition and show car #3, and you miss car #2 taking the pole the viewers will be pissed. So I guess we're stuck with watching the finish line. BORING! I agree with you completely. Perhaps the final session should be run like a mini version of the old system - that would spice it up. As for the TV, if all the final set of cars were on low fuel, you would get an idea of who's in the running after their first couple of laps, that would help the producers choose the best cars to watch. The problem with the old system is that there's no way for a driver to respond to someone setting a quicker time. That's something that, imo, any qualifying needs to have, that's what distinguishes it from rallying, for example. I agree to an extend but surely the current system also prevents a driver from responding to a quicker time. If he's tanked up with a higher race fuel load, there's nothing he can do about a lighter car. He can only respond to his team mate and that's assuming they are running the same strategy. Are you forgetting the purpose of qualifying? It is to put the car you are starting the race with in the best position on the grid you can achieve. There are clear reasons for it being like this. |
more clearly - referring to responding to faster laps in the context of
the previous post. The fact is that any qualifying system will limit
the response you can have to a faster driver. After all - that is what
the race is for, responding to a faster opponent.
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The other extreme are low fuel, qualifying setups, engines, tyres. While entertaining each of these are less and less relevent to the race start or more importantly race pace at the start of the race. Looking at qualifying as a totally seperate entity from the race is a mistake. |
starting positions on the grid. It used to be based upon outright speed
but has now turned into a farce of tactics - almost a pre-race race.
Why not just pull straws and have a 10 lap sprint race to decide the
grid for the main race?
#24
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David Melville wrote: In article <xn0f6b6137d95lq00h (AT) news (DOT) individual.net>, bigbird.usenet (AT) gmail (DOT) com says... David Melville wrote: In article <464bd906.1832270359 (AT) news (DOT) snap.net.nz>, Mark (AT) Jones (DOT) co.nz says... On 17 May 2007 03:10:13 +0300, Phil Carmody thefatphil_demunged (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: "Von Fourche" <Khonakong (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> writes: "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message news:464b337b$0$27182$742ec2ed (AT) news (DOT) sonic.net... I still think the qualifying is crap. The first two sessions are OK but the >> >last session should be run single car, one lap. The problem is, when >> >everyone is out on their final hot lap the television is watching the start >> >finish line. BORING! And I'm still tired of the race-fuel qualifying, even if they do get to burn it off. It's all so stupid, really. Qualifying was changed because of the Schumacher/Ferrari domination. >> There was really nothing wrong with the 12 total laps/one hour format. So you found 24 minutes of completely empty track interesing? Maybe they should combine practice and qualfying again? That way there'll always be something happening. Why not split the field into four equal groups according to Championship ranking and mandate each team in each group perform at least x laps during a specified 15 minute period of qualy? So, bottom feeders must run x laps between Q0:00 and Q0:15, 2nd from bottom, x laps between Q0:15 and Q0:30, etc. All teams are free to use the track at any time during the session for setup and reconnaisance. Qualifying times may be set at any time during the hour. First it is a return to low fuel qualifying Fantastic. Exactly! which is a big backward step. How so? It's old ground but... For e.g. say the Ferrari is on pole at Barcelona and has an open choice of what strategy to run, you are third on the grid how do you go about choosing your strategy? If you choose the optimum but are a lot lighter you are compromised until your first pitstop handing the race to the Ferrari. If you compromise and are a lot heavier than the optimum you are slower over race distance. It is all about second guessing the other cars strategy. Currently with qualifying pace more representative of relative start pace you still have the opportunity to run your own race/pace. {snip] |
point you have to commit to your strategy, having second guessed your
competitors.
#25
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Of course but you still fail to explain how this is achieved under the current format in a live show. |
I'd like a 4 way split of onboard cameras for the top 4 places so you can see
each of there fastest laps together. This would be an added expense and extra
time that would no doubt be considered better spent showing the Emerdale
Street soap opera or football.
#26
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The other extreme are low fuel, qualifying setups, engines, tyres. While entertaining each of these are less and less relevent to the race start or more importantly race pace at the start of the race. |
and super grippy rubber. The forces were tremendous and you could see it in
the chassis, then again they were no quicker than we have now with little rev
limited N/A V8s and grooved tyres.
#27
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Unfortunately, that went down the drain when the top teams decided to only go out for maybe 5-6 minutes of qualifying, set a quick hot lap and piss off back to the garage. And usually, this occured towards the end with about 10 minutes to go, leavign just enough time that they could have another hot lap, if deemed needed. It was actually that trend which made them change the qualy format. The TV viewers(and track side spectators like me) saw next to nothing for 45 minutes, with Aguri-like teams circulating for no other reason but to gather testing miles, while the ones you really wanted to see were sipping tea in the pits. Then all hell broke loose for 10 minutes, with the small teams still out there and the big ones trying to get around them. |
moving to the single lap system did hurt there funding in that respect.
#28
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Why not split the field into four equal groups according to Championship ranking and mandate each team in each group perform at least x laps during a specified 15 minute period of qualy? |
#29
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"Bigbird" <bigbird.usenet (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0f6a6d26hxypz00e (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... just bob wrote: "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci (AT) rcn (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1rmdnaTbrapOzNbbnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d (AT) rcn (DOT) net... "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message news:464b4c93$0$27221$742ec2ed (AT) news (DOT) sonic.net... "Paul-B" <paul (AT) rasf1 (DOT) net> wrote in message news:5b0s4cF2pr5qbU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net... Bigbird wrote: just bob wrote: I still think the qualifying is crap. The first two sessions are OK >>>> > but the last session should be run single car, one lap. The problem >>>> > is, when everyone is out on their final hot lap the television is >>>> > watching the start finish line. BORING! And I'm still tired of the >>>> > race-fuel qualifying, even if they do get to burn it off. It's all >>>> > so stupid, really. The later half of Q3 is almost as exciting as qualifying ever was at >>>> it's best, add back Q1 and Q2 and, while we don't get the single all >>>> out low fuel lap, I reckon this is the one aspect of todays F1 that >>>> they have got right. Q1 and Q2 are fine as they are, but watching a line of F1 cars circling >>> to burn off fuel is a drag. I agreed Q1 and Q2 are fine. But what about none of the final hot laps being shown - all we get is a shot of the start finish line as the cars cross? It's crap. my TV must get a different broadcast than yours. i see them showing a car at different places when its running for time in every segment I do not have access to the video now but how I remember the final minute of qualifying is they followed one car around the track on his last lap up to the start/finish and then stayed on that view until the next four cars cross the line. How exciting! Not. Did you get to see Massa's lap? No. Why would they choose follow Massa? Because that is who won the pole. You would think most people would want to see the whole lap of the fastest man on the day, and not just him crossing the timing line. |
#30
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The problem with the old system is that there's no way for a driver to respond to someone setting a quicker time. That's something that, imo, any qualifying needs to have, that's what distinguishes it from rallying, for example. |
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