Rubens and McLaren

#31

On 7 nov, 02:04, APLer <AP... (AT) floor (DOT) tilde> wrote:

Quote:

"Paul-B" <p... (AT) rasf1 (DOT) net> wrote innews:7li2maF3dknonU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net:

build wrote:

On Nov 6, 2:15*pm, CatharticF1 <rasf1pos... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Seems McLaren had talks with him after he'd already signed for
Williams.

So that's pretty clear - none of you chaps consider Rubens a #2,
right?

http://tinyurl.com/ybwtdwu

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F
%
2Fwww.thef1.com%2Fnoticias%2Fnoticias-2009%2Fnoviembre-2009%2Frubens
- barrichello-rechazo-a-mclaren-por-williams

--
CatharticF1

"What you thought was freedom is just greed."

Get serious !
Rubins would never ever sign with McLaren.
That is just silly.

No, not silly. Fact. If Rubens had been unable to get a seat in a good
team and was offered one at McLaren, proven race-winners and looking
good for 2010, do you seriously think he'd say "no" and walk away from
F1?

What kind of dream world are you living in?

No dream at all. He *knows* he would have to be a #2 driver to Hamilton
and his father. Somethings he'd retire from F1 rather than do again.

The therapy isn't working after 3 years that your boy got beaten by
Lewis in the same car?

You really live in a fantasy world if you think Rubens had any chance
to get signed at Mclaren. They are after Kimi who is currently asking
for too much money. Rubens was just a tool to pressure Kimi. And if
Kimi doesn't get signed which is extremely unlikely, they'll go after
Heidfeld.

And Button won't go to Mclaren also, he's staying at Brawn ofcourse.

#32

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:25:36 +1100, Simon says <Wcub4 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

On 7 nov, 02:04, APLer <AP... (AT) floor (DOT) tilde> wrote:
"Paul-B" <p... (AT) rasf1 (DOT) net> wrote
innews:7li2maF3dknonU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net:

build wrote:

On Nov 6, 2:15 pm, CatharticF1 <rasf1pos... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Seems McLaren had talks with him after he'd already signed for
Williams.

So that's pretty clear - none of you chaps consider Rubens a #2,
right?

http://tinyurl.com/ybwtdwu

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F
%

2Fwww.thef1.com%2Fnoticias%2Fnoticias-2009%2Fnoviembre-2009%2Frubens
- barrichello-rechazo-a-mclaren-por-williams

--
CatharticF1

"What you thought was freedom is just greed."

Get serious !
Rubins would never ever sign with McLaren.
That is just silly.

No, not silly. Fact. If Rubens had been unable to get a seat in a good
team and was offered one at McLaren, proven race-winners and looking
good for 2010, do you seriously think he'd say "no" and walk away from
F1?

What kind of dream world are you living in?

No dream at all. He *knows* he would have to be a #2 driver to Hamilton
and his father. Somethings he'd retire from F1 rather than do again.

The therapy isn't working after 3 years that your boy got beaten by
Lewis in the same car?

You really live in a fantasy world if you think Rubens had any chance
to get signed at Mclaren. They are after Kimi who is currently asking
for too much money. Rubens was just a tool to pressure Kimi. And if
Kimi doesn't get signed which is extremely unlikely, they'll go after
Heidfeld.

And Button won't go to Mclaren also, he's staying at Brawn ofcourse.

Rubens /real/ career is over.

Sadly, he has become the bridesmaid journeyman.

"the wheels turn biting on the midnight frost"

--
Cheers,
Dave

Don't touch me unless you love me.

#33

On Nov 7, 4:25*pm, Simon says <Wc... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

They are after Kimi who is currently asking for too much money.

How many times do you need to read that McLaren are paying zilch, zip,
nothing for Kimi. It's been widely published so how can Kimi ask too
much, can't McLaren afford nothing?

It is not the money, Ralph.

build

#34

David Melville wrote

Quote:

Rubens /real/ career is over.

I thought he had a chance with Brawn.

I really liked him with Stewart, but he joined Ferrari and became "Schumi's
Slave".

Now? I agree. It's over for Rubens.

Nice guy. Always liked him.

And next year? Who knows.

Brawn isn't going to be top notch either. Leaving that team isn't a bad thing.

I have no high expectations from Brawn.

Ruben Ho will always be one of my favourite perennial second bananas.

#35

On 6 Nov 2009 07:53:01 GMT, "Paul-B" <paul (AT) rasf1 (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

Ian Dalziel wrote:

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:01:59 -0800 (PST), Bob Dubery
megapode (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

No - I'm not saying an approach means he's a number 2. More that
the >> unkind view of Rubens when he was at Ferrari was that.

Well that's what he was. You didn't see Schumacher being told to
pull over to let Rubens win.

Remind me - how often did Barrichello lead Schumacher in the
championship?

They were exactly equal at the start...

Well, it's a long time since I learned arithmetic, but I seem to
remember some semantic difference between "equal" and "greater
than"...

We'll never know now, but I think the Ferrari attitude was a
cold-blooded intention to maximise their Champioship chances, rather
than some emotional attachment to Schumacher. If Rubens had ever come
out of the first few races with a significant lead I think it would
have been Michael who'd have been told to move over.

--

Ian D

#36

In message <Xns9CBB9B4D8E196rasf1postergmailcom (AT) 203 (DOT) 26.24.228>,
CatharticF1 <rasf1poster (AT) gmail (DOT) com> writes

Quote:

So it's not unkind to suggest that Rubens, or Irvine for that matter,
was a number 2 driver at Ferrari. It's just stating the obvious.

OK - to extrapolate then. McLaren presumably wanted him to play the
same role for Lewis..?

Let's try to follow the "logic" of that.

When he was much younger, Rubens signed a contract to be Schumacher's
number two.

Rubens has repeatedly said during this year that he had enough of
playing lapdog in his Ferrari years and he was damned if he was ever
going to do that again.

Yet now when we are told that McLaren approached him to offer him a
drive, you think that we should believe that this team must expect that
he will play lapdog again. And we are supposed to think that just
because we know and have repeatedly said what Rubens himself has
confirmed: that at Ferrari he was Schumacher's lapdog.

Brendan, to anyone with half a brain cell and no Ferrari blinkers, this
is as concrete proof as you could ask for that Lewis is *not* demanding
number 1 status. The fact that many of us here on rasf1 do not rate
Rubens as an absolute front line driver does not change that in the
slightest.
--
Richard Miller

#37

On Nov 7, 3:04*am, APLer <AP... (AT) floor (DOT) tilde> wrote:

Quote:

"Paul-B" <p... (AT) rasf1 (DOT) net> wrote innews:7li2maF3dknonU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net:

What kind of dream world are you living in?

No dream at all. He *knows* he would have to be a #2 driver to Hamilton
and his father. Somethings he'd retire from F1 rather than do again.

The sequence of events was that he'd signed for Williams and THEN
McLaren came to talk to him. So we don't know if Rubens would have
taken that drive at McLaren or not.

#38

On Nov 7, 2:25*pm, Richard Miller <rich... (AT) seasalter0 (DOT) demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Quote:

Brendan, to anyone with half a brain cell and no Ferrari blinkers, this
is as concrete proof as you could ask for that Lewis is *not* demanding
number 1 status. The fact that many of us here on rasf1 do not rate
Rubens as an absolute front line driver does not change that in the
slightest.

I think the number 1 / number 2 thing is overdone. I think that in
most cases a team will make guarantees of equal opportunity because
they've calculated that one driver is going to outdo the other by a
reasonable distance anyway.

I would be that in most teams the two drivers are theoretically equal
but in reality it never becomes an issue as one driver consistently
has the upper hand.

Most teams will have some policy by which they can start imposing
orders. This is only likely to come into play when one of their
drivers has a shot at the championship - which is to say that for most
teams it's academic.

#39

On Nov 8, 5:26*pm, Bob Dubery <megap... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

And if he's so good then why are Ferrari elbowing him aside for Alonso
AND keeping Massa on?

Money? Santander money.

beers,
build

#40

On Nov 8, 9:36*am, "Chad" <cbs... (AT) safemail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Bob Dubery wrote:

I wonder why Kimi was willing to walk away from an inked 45 million for a
potential 17 million if he still wanted to drive though. That's an awfully
big number to risk if the decision rested on something 'trivial' like him
being really unhappy driving the red car, for instance.
Well we're guessing that that's what the deal was. He originally

signed for three years - which would take him to the end of 2009. My
guess was that there was an option that allowed Ferrari to continue
the relationship or pay him a settlement fee.

Whatever, whether Kimi wanted to drive for Ferrari or not, it seems
clear that they didn't want him. There seems to have been no attempt
to make another year attractive to him. Even with Massa in hospital
with serious, potentially career-threatening injuries (and with the
real Kimi Raikkonen starting to show up at races) they didn't seem
that keen on retaining him.

Quote:

He could have thought getting 35mil to drive elsewhere was on the cards too
I suppose. even though that sounds a bit fanciful now.
Well it was pretty amazing in 2006. I would think it unrealistic in

the current economic climate and given his very variable form and
motivation.

Quote:

He's Ferrari's cast off right now. Everybody knows that. I don't think
he's in a strong bargaining position right now.

That said, the current reported difficulties could be the usual
haggling that goes on. It's not unusual for the driver and the team to
have different ideas of the driver's worth.

Yeah, he does appear to have made a tactical blunder. If McL are really only
offering 5mil though, it must feel like being screwed to the wall for Kimi.
Not a good way to get a new relationship underway.

It's not a new relationship, and there's some history there. Kimi's
first deal with McLaren had an annual increase built in for 5 years,
and then there was an option that McLaren could exercise, at a price,
if they wanted him for 2007 and onwards. McLaren declined to exercise
their option, thus making Kimi a free agent, signed Alonso and then
tried to negotiate a deal with Kimi on their terms rather than on his.
Reportedly that was when Kimi and Ferrari started talking to each
other.