So, the chicane

#11

a_Frank wrote:

Quote:

On 14 May 2007 09:01:20 GMT, "Bigbird" <bigbird.usenet (AT) gmail (DOT) com
wrote:

Phil Newnham wrote:

Did it help anyone overtake into T1? I didn't see any overtaking
there that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may
have made the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
Perhaps they should look into reducing aero grip...if it's at all
possible for them to discuss a solution without resorting to hyperbole.

Don't need hyperbole. Chicanes are not a very good passing point full
stop.
Almost any attempt of an overtake into a chicane, with two close to
equal cars, naughty aero or not, will likely result in the loser
having to go off the track, even if just momentarily. Because the two
turns are so close and the chicanes so narrow, that only one car can
make the right lines through both of them.
For a clean pass, you need the other car to be much slower, or yield
to you.

Whoosh, I think. The chicane was supposed to help overtaking into T1,
way down the other end of the start/finish straight, by slowing the cars
through the last corner and allowing them to draft. I think the problem
is, the chicane is so slow that the car behind can't get on the power
quick enough to keep up.

--
Phil

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmc1979/

#12

On Mon, 14 May 2007 22:52:09 +0100, Phil Newnham <pnewnham (AT) yahoo (DOT) com>
wrote:

Quote:

a_Frank wrote:
On 14 May 2007 09:01:20 GMT, "Bigbird" <bigbird.usenet (AT) gmail (DOT) com
wrote:

Phil Newnham wrote:

Did it help anyone overtake into T1? I didn't see any overtaking
there that wasn't pitstop or startline related - seems like they may
have made the circuit "safer" but not helped the racing any.
Perhaps they should look into reducing aero grip...if it's at all
possible for them to discuss a solution without resorting to hyperbole.

Don't need hyperbole. Chicanes are not a very good passing point full
stop.
Almost any attempt of an overtake into a chicane, with two close to
equal cars, naughty aero or not, will likely result in the loser
having to go off the track, even if just momentarily. Because the two
turns are so close and the chicanes so narrow, that only one car can
make the right lines through both of them.
For a clean pass, you need the other car to be much slower, or yield
to you.

Whoosh, I think. The chicane was supposed to help overtaking into T1,
way down the other end of the start/finish straight, by slowing the cars
through the last corner and allowing them to draft. I think the problem
is, the chicane is so slow that the car behind can't get on the power
quick enough to keep up.

Ok, i was indeed wooshed on where they thought it may help.

However, these cars do not prvide draft to speak of. I see more actual
drafting effect in MotoGP. They do on the other hand have comparable
braking power and engine power, driven by a very smart computer(old
timers may recall days when human drivers actually measured the amount
of pedal movement to avoid wheelspin and lock ups).
So the end result will always be a simple concertina which will only
help cars if they have better engines to T1.
Better known in OZ as a Clayton's excitement.. which is what F1 sadly
seems to be edging towards. Make it all look busy, that's good racing.
Not.

--

Regards, Frank

#13

a_Frank wrote:

Quote:

Ok, i was indeed wooshed on where they thought it may help.
However, these cars do not prvide draft to speak of. I see more actual
drafting effect in MotoGP. They do on the other hand have comparable
braking power and engine power, driven by a very smart computer(old
timers may recall days when human drivers actually measured the amount
of pedal movement to avoid wheelspin and lock ups).

Since you do still see lock ups in F1 I think you're perhaps
exaggerating slightly for effect

Quote:

So the end result will always be a simple concertina which will only
help cars if they have better engines to T1.
Better known in OZ as a Clayton's excitement.. which is what F1 sadly
seems to be edging towards. Make it all look busy, that's good racing.
Not.

Well, Alonso got a good draft from Massa, but to get it, he had to be
right up behind the Ferrari. I think it must still be possible to go
faster behind an F1 car than in free air, because the F1 car must impart
some forward acceleration to the air. The problem seems to be that by
the time they get into the last corner, they're already not close
together having come out of the chicane, and the last corner is still a
fast corner because they accelerate so fast - fast enough that they
cross the line at the same speed this year as last year.

--
Phil

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmc1979/

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So, the chicane

Formula 1 Formula 1 motor racing discusions (rec.autos.sport.f1)

Re: So, the chicane - 05-14-2007 , 05:52 PM

Re: So, the chicane - 05-14-2007 , 06:10 PM

Re: So, the chicane - 05-15-2007 , 05:39 AM