Webber

#21

tt wrote:

Quote:

"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote in message
news:2006080300194616807-president (AT) whitehousegov (DOT) ..
I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at Williams, and
now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

A rough mental count suggests to me that Webber has lost perhaps as many as
20 points this year due to breakdowns in a very average performing car.
Those lost points (plus points that would then have been taken back from
other drivers who gained at his expense) would have him sitting in about 6th
in the drivers standings. That would have made him the best of the rest
behind the Two Ferraris, Renaults and McLarens at this stage of the season.
That's a pretty good effort I think.

Indeed.

Quote:

Rosberg by comparison has done almost nothing but is hailed as then next
coming...I know his lost points due to DNF (if any) would probably mean he
would still be around 12th to 14th in the standings.

I suggest you re-evaluate that estimation. Apply the same analysis to
Nico that you applied to Webber. Nico likewise has lost out on a lot due
to mechanical DNF's and being shunted by the idiotic actions of others.
Asserting that he has accomplished almost nothing in comparison to
Webber does not seem to be an accurate reflection of how things have
panned out.

--
Forty

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and
mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.” - Ernest Hemingway

#22

"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote

Quote:

I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at Williams, and
now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

I like Webber.

#23

"forty" <cforteNO (AT) SPAMgmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

tt wrote:
"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote in message
news:2006080300194616807-president (AT) whitehousegov (DOT) ..
I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at Williams,
and now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

A rough mental count suggests to me that Webber has lost perhaps as many
as 20 points this year due to breakdowns in a very average performing
car. Those lost points (plus points that would then have been taken back
from other drivers who gained at his expense) would have him sitting in
about 6th in the drivers standings. That would have made him the best of
the rest behind the Two Ferraris, Renaults and McLarens at this stage of
the season. That's a pretty good effort I think.

Indeed.

Rosberg by comparison has done almost nothing but is hailed as then next
coming...I know his lost points due to DNF (if any) would probably mean
he would still be around 12th to 14th in the standings.

I suggest you re-evaluate that estimation. Apply the same analysis to Nico
that you applied to Webber. Nico likewise has lost out on a lot due to
mechanical DNF's and being shunted by the idiotic actions of others.
Asserting that he has accomplished almost nothing in comparison to Webber
does not seem to be an accurate reflection of how things have panned out.

--

Perhaps I was a little harsh, but my general impression of Nico's season to
date remains about the same. I have to question how many times Nico's DNFs
actually caused him to drop out of the points. Canada is one instance where
his crash cost him points, there may be another, I can't recall. I don't
like to include crashes in the equation either because there is always an
element of driver responsibility. By that, Webber has had two first lap
crashes, though in both cases he was not likely to score many, if any
points. Sure Nico has had bad luck, but has it really cost him that much?
Mechanical failures while running out of the points don't make a big
difference at the end of the day.

I can't help recall that Williams were somewhat critical of Webber's driving
last year as at times he got tangled up with other cars while pushing the
car beyond 100% trying to gain places, much like Nico's driving this year
perhaps. Webber has switched his style to be much more reliable, and Nico
seems to be the erratic one, and yet Williams feel Nico is the Wunderkid?

Tim

#24

"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote

Quote:

I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at Williams, and
now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

One of the dumbest posts. Fyi, a driver is only as good as his car. If the
car is slow and unreliable, he can't win races - especially in this day and
age where reliability is so high. Otoh, the best way to judge a driver's
worth - rather than a car's - is to look at the driver's performance
relative to their teammate. Webber has been exceptional in terms of
outgunning all of his teammates with the possible exception of Heidfeld.

#25

<tt> wrote

Quote:

"forty" <cforteNO (AT) SPAMgmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:4jec5iF7hi6hU2 (AT) individual (DOT) net...
tt wrote:
"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote in message
news:2006080300194616807-president (AT) whitehousegov (DOT) ..
I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at Williams,
and now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

A rough mental count suggests to me that Webber has lost perhaps as many
as 20 points this year due to breakdowns in a very average performing
car. Those lost points (plus points that would then have been taken back
from other drivers who gained at his expense) would have him sitting in
about 6th in the drivers standings. That would have made him the best of
the rest behind the Two Ferraris, Renaults and McLarens at this stage of
the season. That's a pretty good effort I think.

Indeed.

Rosberg by comparison has done almost nothing but is hailed as then next
coming...I know his lost points due to DNF (if any) would probably mean
he would still be around 12th to 14th in the standings.

I suggest you re-evaluate that estimation. Apply the same analysis to
Nico that you applied to Webber. Nico likewise has lost out on a lot due
to mechanical DNF's and being shunted by the idiotic actions of others.
Asserting that he has accomplished almost nothing in comparison to Webber
does not seem to be an accurate reflection of how things have panned out.

--

Perhaps I was a little harsh, but my general impression of Nico's season
to date remains about the same. I have to question how many times Nico's
DNFs actually caused him to drop out of the points. Canada is one instance
where his crash cost him points, there may be another, I can't recall. I
don't like to include crashes in the equation either because there is
always an element of driver responsibility. By that, Webber has had two
first lap crashes, though in both cases he was not likely to score many,
if any points. Sure Nico has had bad luck, but has it really cost him that
much? Mechanical failures while running out of the points don't make a big
difference at the end of the day.

I can't help recall that Williams were somewhat critical of Webber's
driving last year as at times he got tangled up with other cars while
pushing the car beyond 100% trying to gain places, much like Nico's
driving this year perhaps. Webber has switched his style to be much more
reliable, and Nico seems to be the erratic one, and yet Williams feel Nico
is the Wunderkid?

Tim

I'm sure that Williams would have been happy to retain Webber, but it came
down to money (ie, they couldn't afford to pay him the same salary as this
year) and Webber wasn't interested in signing as he knew that their was a
better drive in the offer.

#26

Mark wrote:

Quote:

tt> wrote

"forty" <cforteNO (AT) SPAMgmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:4jec5iF7hi6hU2 (AT) individual (DOT) net...
tt wrote:
"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote in message
news:2006080300194616807-president (AT) whitehousegov (DOT) ..
I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at
Williams, and now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

A rough mental count suggests to me that Webber has lost perhaps
as many as 20 points this year due to breakdowns in a very average
performing car. Those lost points (plus points that would then
have been taken back from other drivers who gained at his expense)
would have him sitting in about 6th in the drivers standings. That
would have made him the best of the rest behind the Two Ferraris,
Renaults and McLarens at this stage of the season. That's a pretty
good effort I think.
Indeed.

Rosberg by comparison has done almost nothing but is hailed as
then next coming...I know his lost points due to DNF (if any)
would probably mean he would still be around 12th to 14th in the
standings.

I suggest you re-evaluate that estimation. Apply the same analysis
to Nico that you applied to Webber. Nico likewise has lost out on a
lot due to mechanical DNF's and being shunted by the idiotic
actions of others. Asserting that he has accomplished almost
nothing in comparison to Webber does not seem to be an accurate
reflection of how things have panned out. --

Perhaps I was a little harsh, but my general impression of Nico's
season to date remains about the same. I have to question how many
times Nico's DNFs actually caused him to drop out of the points.
Canada is one instance where his crash cost him points, there may be
another, I can't recall. I don't like to include crashes in the
equation either because there is always an element of driver
responsibility. By that, Webber has had two first lap crashes,
though in both cases he was not likely to score many, if any points.
Sure Nico has had bad luck, but has it really cost him that much?
Mechanical failures while running out of the points don't make a big
difference at the end of the day. I can't help recall that Williams were
somewhat critical of Webber's
driving last year as at times he got tangled up with other cars while
pushing the car beyond 100% trying to gain places, much like Nico's
driving this year perhaps. Webber has switched his style to be much
more reliable, and Nico seems to be the erratic one, and yet
Williams feel Nico is the Wunderkid?

I'm sure that Williams would have been happy to retain Webber, but it
came down to money (ie, they couldn't afford to pay him the same
salary as this year) and Webber wasn't interested in signing as he
knew that their was a better drive in the offer.

If Williams can't afford decent drivers because they are having to buy
Toyota customer engines, what good will the engines do them?
--
John Briggs

#27

<tt> wrote

Quote:

"forty" <cforteNO (AT) SPAMgmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:4jec5iF7hi6hU2 (AT) individual (DOT) net...
tt wrote:
"Jonathan Peirce" <president (AT) whitehouse (DOT) gov> wrote in message
news:2006080300194616807-president (AT) whitehousegov (DOT) ..
I don't get it. He did nothing at Jaguar, close to nothing at Williams,
and now he get's a seat in the world champion's car?
JP

A rough mental count suggests to me that Webber has lost perhaps as many
as 20 points this year due to breakdowns in a very average performing
car. Those lost points (plus points that would then have been taken back
from other drivers who gained at his expense) would have him sitting in
about 6th in the drivers standings. That would have made him the best of
the rest behind the Two Ferraris, Renaults and McLarens at this stage of
the season. That's a pretty good effort I think.

Indeed.

Rosberg by comparison has done almost nothing but is hailed as then next
coming...I know his lost points due to DNF (if any) would probably mean
he would still be around 12th to 14th in the standings.

I suggest you re-evaluate that estimation. Apply the same analysis to
Nico that you applied to Webber. Nico likewise has lost out on a lot due
to mechanical DNF's and being shunted by the idiotic actions of others.
Asserting that he has accomplished almost nothing in comparison to Webber
does not seem to be an accurate reflection of how things have panned out.

--

Perhaps I was a little harsh, but my general impression of Nico's season
to date remains about the same. I have to question how many times Nico's
DNFs actually caused him to drop out of the points. Canada is one instance
where his crash cost him points, there may be another, I can't recall. I
don't like to include crashes in the equation either because there is
always an element of driver responsibility. By that, Webber has had two
first lap crashes, though in both cases he was not likely to score many,
if any points. Sure Nico has had bad luck, but has it really cost him that
much? Mechanical failures while running out of the points don't make a big
difference at the end of the day.

I can't help recall that Williams were somewhat critical of Webber's
driving last year as at times he got tangled up with other cars while
pushing the car beyond 100% trying to gain places, much like Nico's
driving this year perhaps. Webber has switched his style to be much more
reliable, and Nico seems to be the erratic one, and yet Williams feel Nico
is the Wunderkid?

Tim ------------------------------------------

Obviously Willaims believe Nico has demonstrated he has a future and Webber
hasn't. I don't understand all the excitement here about Webber. I'd rate
him below Coultard (whom I'm no fan of) and Button.

--
Hal S.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Webber

Formula 1 Formula 1 motor racing discusions (rec.autos.sport.f1)

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 09:31 AM

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 09:44 AM

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 10:15 AM

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 10:38 AM

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 10:39 AM

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 01:21 PM

Re: Webber - 08-03-2006 , 01:39 PM