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Re: That pass
Formula 1 Formula 1 motor racing discusions (rec.autos.sport.f1)
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Re: That pass -
06-30-2003
, 08:14 PM
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CatharticF1 <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net> wrote: Well I would suggest that even with MS drifting wide, JPM could have made the corner, taken second place and avoided contact. Do you disagree? Put Villeneuve in MS's place - then what would your reaction have been? I'm betting *very* different. |
My reaction would be: 'Juan Pinball is a freaking idiot!'
But you already knew that...
-Bob
#2
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CatharticF1 <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net> wrote: Well I would suggest that even with MS drifting wide, JPM could have made the corner, taken second place and avoided contact. Do you disagree? Put Villeneuve in MS's place - then what would your reaction have been? I'm betting *very* different. |
Ric - 'none of the camera angles seem quite decisive to me'.
I'm actually a little surprised at the amount of attention it got.
--
CatharticF1
"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
#3
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I'm actually a little surprised at the amount of attention it got. |
It's a recurring problem. JPM causes accidents. That's why it's a bigger
deal.
-Bob
#4
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"CatharticF1" <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net> wrote in message news:MPG.196b6f9aa22c4bca9898aa (AT) news0 (DOT) optus.net.au... I'm actually a little surprised at the amount of attention it got. It's a recurring problem. JPM causes accidents. That's why it's a bigger deal. |
you mentioned Tifosis noticing? I never saw the conference ..
--
CatharticF1
"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
#5
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Well, i'm not a 100% on it, but i thought it went like this. As JPM went aside they were both on the power, Juan made up a few more feet edging a wee bit in front while closing in for the squeeze. At some time MS had realized that he was out of luck and would need to back off, so he braked. All too late as he slotted in just behind JPM's front wheel, which touched his spoiler ripping the side winglet off. That touch probably made MS reflexively brake more and correct towards Juan a tad, making another contact with the side pod, which with the speed difference by then could have had that spin effect. Anyway, unless there are better and undisputable footage of it somewhere this'll go on forever and i for one don't intend to pursue it that much. And i've noticed, neither are you. You feeling ok ? :-) I think the Alonso incident is a much more controversial one than two known block heads bashing wheels. Look at the video from isnide the corner (ground level) youy can clearly see that MS starts the corner "glued" to the inside curb (normal) and that just before impect he goes "outside" to about 1m of the curb, so from this point 2 possibilities : 1 He saw JPM and tried to "push him out" either physically (Villeneuve 97) or psychologically (Raikkonen Magny cours 2002) 2 He had understeer at the bad moment Personnaly i doubt the 2nd point but the only way to know the truth would be to have a look at this telemetry, check the steering angle for point 1 and the lateral G sensor for point 2 Based on the point that they didn't scream like hell (Ferrari) about 'dangerous driving' or 'unfair'... I assume MS did try point 1, it didn't work, he knows it, but he's still happy to have extended his lead in the championship since KR made a fool of Mercedes in germany (ha ha ha) |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
sanford1 (AT) attglobal (DOT) net
#6
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In article <3f06f30f.315972794 (AT) News (DOT) CIS.DFN.DE>, somerat (AT) hotmail (DOT) com says... On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 02:44:15 GMT, CatharticF1 <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net wrote: OK, here's my take on it. Why not just get "it's the tyres" coded into a function key, it'll save you a lot of typing? ;o) Just put them all on Michelins - please!! |
Michelins given Bridgestone's domination. Don't worry they'll even
out soon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
sanford1 (AT) attglobal (DOT) net
#7
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CatharticF1 <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net> wrote OK, here's my take on it. MS was plainly in tyre hell. JPM alluded to it after the race - very slow in corners, fine on the straights. Franks Williams comment also seems to back that up (I like Frank, and Patrick Head actually). Other suff snipped! I don't like Schumacher but the Bridgestone tires in the dry are crap now. Total junk. Ferrari get the best Bridgestones. Jordan and Minardi Bridgestones are even worse. Junk like the Mercedes-Ilmor. |
drivers competition, there is another one between the technical
staffs.This one is just as relevant and just as hard fought. Seemingly
solid advantages don't last forever and this extra variable helps
separate F1 from spec series like the *cough* IRL where dumbing down
is a rule.
As for the above post. 1. I like MS just fine, his record speaks
itself, a great champion. 2. This years Bridgestones are better than
last years all conquering rubber, but I think that they were caught
napping by Michelins improvement. Ferrari have to prove they are up to
being on the short end of a tire war unlike last year. If they win it
will be a greater achievement, so don't bitch about it yet, Tifosi.
As far as Mercedes-Ilmor, Kimi may still be DWC.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
sanford1 (AT) attglobal (DOT) net
#8
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On 30 Jun 2003 06:48:24 -0700, raymonlux (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au (Raymond Luxury-Yacht II) wrote: CatharticF1 <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net> wrote OK, here's my take on it. MS was plainly in tyre hell. JPM alluded to it after the race - very slow in corners, fine on the straights. Franks Williams comment also seems to back that up (I like Frank, and Patrick Head actually). Other suff snipped! I don't like Schumacher but the Bridgestone tires in the dry are crap now. Total junk. Ferrari get the best Bridgestones. Jordan and Minardi Bridgestones are even worse. Junk like the Mercedes-Ilmor. It's engineering wars... something that makes F1 great. Just like the drivers competition, there is another one between the technical staffs.This one is just as relevant and just as hard fought. Seemingly solid advantages don't last forever and this extra variable helps separate F1 from spec series like the *cough* IRL where dumbing down is a rule. As for the above post. 1. I like MS just fine, his record speaks itself, a great champion. 2. This years Bridgestones are better than last years all conquering rubber, but I think that they were caught napping by Michelins improvement. Ferrari have to prove they are up to being on the short end of a tire war unlike last year. If they win it will be a greater achievement, so don't bitch about it yet, Tifosi. As far as Mercedes-Ilmor, Kimi may still be DWC. |
Ferrari - were dominant last year.
--
CatharticF1
"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
#9
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In article <gvo1gvgcq1imje2e13nhqgld6qusph5q7n (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, sanford1 @sprynet.com says... On 30 Jun 2003 06:48:24 -0700, raymonlux (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au (Raymond Luxury-Yacht II) wrote: CatharticF1 <eferrari (AT) heaven (DOT) net> wrote OK, here's my take on it. MS was plainly in tyre hell. JPM alluded to it after the race - very slow in corners, fine on the straights. Franks Williams comment also seems to back that up (I like Frank, and Patrick Head actually). Other suff snipped! I don't like Schumacher but the Bridgestone tires in the dry are crap now. Total junk. Ferrari get the best Bridgestones. Jordan and Minardi Bridgestones are even worse. Junk like the Mercedes-Ilmor. It's engineering wars... something that makes F1 great. Just like the drivers competition, there is another one between the technical staffs.This one is just as relevant and just as hard fought. Seemingly solid advantages don't last forever and this extra variable helps separate F1 from spec series like the *cough* IRL where dumbing down is a rule. As for the above post. 1. I like MS just fine, his record speaks itself, a great champion. 2. This years Bridgestones are better than last years all conquering rubber, but I think that they were caught napping by Michelins improvement. Ferrari have to prove they are up to being on the short end of a tire war unlike last year. If they win it will be a greater achievement, so don't bitch about it yet, Tifosi. As far as Mercedes-Ilmor, Kimi may still be DWC. I'm curious to find out why you think Bridgestone - as opposed to Ferrari - were dominant last year. |
of their stints and also their preference for hot track surfaces vs
there dismal performance in the cold. It was a learning year and they
seem to have done the work. Ferrari did have the dominant car last
year and won regardless of the tires, IMO. This year is different.
The rise of the Williams and the competitiveness of *last years*
McLaren vs the 2003GA is probably due to tires. Michelin's been
working while Bridgestone coasted. Bridgestone has their wake up call
and if they don't close the gap by the British GP, then they're really
in trouble.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Sanford
sanford1 (AT) attglobal (DOT) net
#10
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In article <dp70gv0e6k2pv7lgs22m3up307aokalev8 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, gojphNOJUNKTHANKS (AT) hotmail (DOT) com says... snip You're misrepresenting what you said - re-read above David, where you said Schu reckoned he was left enough room. Your comment was quite deliberately selective, it *is* curious that. You misrepresent (or deliberately misunderstand) what I'm saying. I don't misrepresent what I say myself - how can I?! That's tortuous even for you. Schumacher was OK with the pass. You're not. I find that not at all curious nor surprising... I'm OK with it. Read the original post, the only point I made was that he squeezed him a little more than was necessary - which to paraphrase says that a little more room would have been better. No difference.. |
Michael "a little more than necessary", mine is that he didn't, he
allowed him just enough room. Schumacher saying that he'd have liked a
little more room doesn't make it so. Obviously, he'd have liked more
room - he'd have preferred JPM not to have been there at all. The one
does not equate to the other, except in your mind, Brendan...
Quote:
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Oh - and nice try with the 'class' shot, I've taken no shot at JPM - something you in return have always been completely incapable of wrt Schu. You've said you didn't think he left enough room - that's a shot. Now you're getting desperate...! |
Quote:
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snip It isn't necessary to squeeze so hard when with such extra pace it could be done more cleanly, but JPM does have a special place in his heart for Schu, doesn't he? It was done cleanly. Schumacher said so. His fans, of course, can't accept that, as usual... Of course I never said it wasn't clean, I was at pains on *2* occasions within the original post to say so too. Did you ever work as a translator between Middle East diplomats? |
years...
David
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