What's going on?

#21

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, AC wrote:

Quote:

Calm down, Max has gone.

Just watch and see Todt appoint Max as his F1 Commissioner

#22

Bigbird wrote:

Quote:

Chad wrote:

WebSlave wrote:
Mike P wrote:

I think we'll just have to wait and see what, if any changes JT
and FOTA working together can make. For one, the testing ban has
to go, it's ridiculous.

Well, let's hope JT can talk the teams out of it, then. It was the
teams that wanted the test ban. Max thought it was a bit too strict,
but since that's what they wanted, then that's what they got.

-Webs-

There has to be something us average fans don't understand about the
testing ban.

I don't think I can recall any team or driver criticising it despite
so many fans thinking it has turned out to be an obvious mistake.

There is a one dimensional reason for the in season testing ban. Cost.
By banning in season testing in it's previous form the teams cut a
huge cost from their budgets and also created the illusion of a more
even playing field. With all the emphasis being on cutting costs
re-introducing any portion of that cost would be going against the
tide. It appears a narrow minded, introvert and short-sighted
approach.

What doesn't seem to have hit the press is any discussion of
increasing testing opportunities over race weekends, at least at a
select number of the more popular events.

One would think that Thursday testing or additional Friday testing at
the very least would have been discussed within FOTA and it's hard to
see that the argument would go against it in some form. It could also
be used as a method to ensure reserve drivers get some hours in the
car.

Logic suggests if they don't do something we will end up seeing even more
than the 4 or 5 under-prepared drivers in races we have seen this year in
future seasons.

Maybe it will take one of them geting hurt to get the powers that be
talking. I'm still surprised the Drivers Association hasn't had more to say
about it. Surely cost containment is all important to them too.

--
Chad

#23

Mark wrote:

Quote:

But consider that for a minute.

Without testing, all teams take a fair time to catch up (if they can)
with any innovation.

Suppose it had been McLaren or Ferrari who had the big advantage
at the start of 2009 instead of Brawn. *Would the rest of the pack be
capable of catching up under the no-testing regime? *Brawn couldn't
compete with in-season development of McLaren, nor even of Ferrari
(though they gave up earlier).

Fair point, but I don'¨t think the rest of the pack would catch up
Ferrari and McLaren with or without in-season testing if those two
were ahead already. In-season testing would be more advantageous to
the big teams with better resources.

Then again, we saw Force India's giant leap at Spa. I suppose
improvements don't necessarily require track time, if simulated well
enough.

-Webs-

#24

WebSlave <webslavenews (AT) mail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Mark wrote:

But consider that for a minute.

Without testing, all teams take a fair time to catch up (if they can)
with any innovation.

Suppose it had been McLaren or Ferrari who had the big advantage
at the start of 2009 instead of Brawn. *Would the rest of the pack be
capable of catching up under the no-testing regime? *Brawn couldn't
compete with in-season development of McLaren, nor even of Ferrari
(though they gave up earlier).

Fair point, but I don'¨t think the rest of the pack would catch up
Ferrari and McLaren with or without in-season testing if those two
were ahead already. In-season testing would be more advantageous to
the big teams with better resources.

Quite possibly - I was just pointing out that it wasn't all positive.

Quote:

Then again, we saw Force India's giant leap at Spa. I suppose
improvements don't necessarily require track time, if simulated well
enough.

True - though that (sadly) also tends to side with the better-funded
teams.

Let's admit it: if you have money, you will always have some
advantage...even if it doesn't guarantee success.

#25

In article <7le7b8F3df4mpU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net>,
Mike P <privacy (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

Bizarre happenings ..

1. Ferrari sticking the knife into the FIA
2. I'm finding myself agreeing with them..

very weird.

Why weird? Did you see how far down the rankings Ferrari finished this
year?

#26

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:43:49 +1100, AC <xxx (AT) xxx (DOT) xxx> wrote:

Quote:

"APLer" <APLer (AT) floor (DOT) tilde> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB9E6DF6D8F4APLer (AT) 127 (DOT) 0.0.1...
"AC" <xxx (AT) xxx (DOT) xxx> wrote in news:LLpIm.26686$6O1.25790 (AT) newsfe08 (DOT) ams2:

snip

Quote:

expensive, and that has been caused in part by the manufacturers.

Funny that Toyota and BMW were a strong part of FOTA, opposed cost
cutting, then left. Perhaps Renault too. Way to go FOTA. Talk about
poisoning the well.

And what was the biggest waste of them all? KERS Something the teams had
no part in proposing. Sorry, but this wasting money hand over fist is
nonsence IMHO. Just like the argument that NASA and pure research are
wasted money. The only people who say that are dull-witted politicians
that don't care if they're right. They're going for the lowest common
denominator - votes. Enter Max and his unbreakable election record. Open
up the engines and go back to one aero surface on the front, one on the
back, a difuser, and no protruberances that weren't there at the
beginning
of the season. Someone may even come up with the next traction control
or
ABS. They both happened before Max was in.

Calm down, Max has gone. Interesting that all you do is bang on about
KERS and not the issue in hand. But then this is quite typical of the
anti Max loon brigade. Anything Max says and touches is wrong. Blah,
blah, blah.

AC

Yes, but, AC, you continue to come across as the resident Mosely apologist.

From this side of the screen, on the MM issue, you sound pretty "blah blah
blah" yourself.

Sorry, mate. That's just how it reads.

--
Cheers,
Dave

Don't touch me unless you love me.

#27

"AC" <xxx (AT) xxx (DOT) xxx> wrote in news:WmvIm.81486$ei3.27967 (AT) newsfe22 (DOT) ams2:

Quote:

Calm down, Max has gone.

No kidding. But his screwups remain. Multitudes of them. And I *am* calm.
I'm just stating the facts.

Quote:

Interesting that all you do is bang on about KERS

I mention it *once* in the above paragraph. There were several other *solutions*
I mentioned that you ignored for some inexplicable reason.

Quote:

and not the issue in hand. But then this is quite typical of the anti
Max loon brigade. Anything Max says and touches is wrong. Blah, blah,
blah.

Well if the truth hurts, you must be headed for the emergency room.

#28

On Nov 6, 11:37*am, "David Melville" <davidmelvi... (AT) exemail (DOT) com.au>
wrote:

Quote:

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:43:49 +1100, AC <x... (AT) xxx (DOT) xxx> wrote:

Calm down, Max has gone. Interesting that all you do is bang on about *
KERS and not the issue in hand. But then this is quite typical of the *
anti Max loon brigade. Anything Max says and touches is wrong. Blah, *
blah, blah.

AC

Yes, but, AC, you continue to come across as the resident Mosely apologist.
*From this side of the screen, on the MM issue, you sound pretty "blah blah *
blah" yourself.

Sorry, mate. That's just how it reads.
--
Cheers,
* * * * Dave

G'day Dave,
That's not how it reads mate, sorry.
As a newish poster to this group, I'd say AC's position is one of the
most reasonable here on things FIA. His seems rather pragmatic against
irrational hatred of a public body.

beers,
build

#29

On 2009-11-06, build <buildy (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

As a newish poster to this group, I'd say AC's position is one of the
most reasonable here on things FIA. His seems rather pragmatic against
irrational hatred of a public body.

It's the painting of everyone as being in the extreme group that AC
does wrong, like Cathartic and his Britpack nonsense, taking comments
by separate members of the group as the thoughts of the whole. Just
exaggerating everyone else's position to make himself look reasonable.
It's pretty much a stock tactic amongst the loony fringe.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/

#30

On Nov 7, 8:54*am, Ian Rawlings <new... (AT) tarcus (DOT) org.uk> wrote:

Quote:

On 2009-11-06, build <bui... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

As a newish poster to this group, I'd say AC's position is one of the
most reasonable here on things FIA. His seems rather pragmatic against
irrational hatred of a public body.

It's the painting of everyone as being in the extreme group that AC
does wrong, like Cathartic and his Britpack nonsense, taking comments
by separate members of the group as the thoughts of the whole. *Just
exaggerating everyone else's position to make himself look reasonable.
It's pretty much a stock tactic amongst the loony fringe.

G'day Ian,
The way I read many of the posts here is that they want someone to
blame for their fav team or drivers failures so they grab at the
thinnest of threads and end up sounding irrational or just plain
stupid. Then the thread disintegrates to simple abuse of people they
don't even know.

That seems to a common theme amongst F1 groups so I guess we can at
least conclude that F1 fans are passionate about their sport.

Of coarse I have no irrational tendencies.
beers,
build
---
Mark Webber for Prime Minister.