On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:46:07 -0400, pm <pm (AT) sbcglogal (DOT) net> wrote:

If you know how to solder, know what voltage the lamps are (easily
measured with a DVOM), know a source for the lamps (sometimes Radio
Sludge, sometimes the Internet), yes, anything like that can be fixed.
But it takes skills that the average mechanic may not have, and tools
(low wattage soldering iron, etc.) that he may not have as well.

Same as above!

"AJ" <aTAKEjOUTi (AT) UPPERkosCASE (DOT) net> wrote in message
My '97 was not, but flaws were minor. My '91 had a host of problems, as did
my '84 and '83. My '07 Sonata has been flawless so far. Better than any
car I've ever owned at 57,000 miles.

Any mechanical device will eventually break or wear out. The problem GM
gave me was too much too soon and no help.

"80 Knight" <nospam (AT) please (DOT) com> wrote in message .
The J D Powers is "initial quality" IIRC. While that is a good thing, they
are rating cars that have no real miles yet. The best survey would be at
50,000 or more miles. If you trade cars every 30,000 or so, any brand is
probably very good.

Why would the do that, the are surveying NEW car buyers?

The statistical fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces
that vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 30,000 to
45,000 miles on the odometer.

Less than 30% of new vehicle buyers in the US keep a vehicle for up to ten
years, and only around 2% keep them longer, according to the US D.O.C.


"Ed Pawlowski" <esp (AT) snet (DOT) net> wrote

"Mike" <mikehunt2 (AT) lycos (DOT) com> wrote

OK, pick a number, if 50k is too much, how about 25k? 30K? Those that do
trade at low miles sell those cars to buyers that never buy new, but still
want reliability. Some of us put 70k to 150k on our cars. They will need
repairs along the way, but an overall good track record helps with resale
value.

I expect any car is going to be pretty good right from the showroom, but I
don't want to have to worry about problems later.

I liked my car from the showroom and would have given it high marks. Less
than two years later though, it was turning to crap and the slippery slope
got steeper after the warranty. Right now it only gets about 3000 miles a
year so I don't want to invest in a new car to replace it, but it continues
to deteriorate.

What part of "Why would they do that, the are surveying NEW car buyers, did
you not understand?

"Ed Pawlowski" <esp (AT) snet (DOT) net> wrote

"Mike" <mikehunt2 (AT) lycos (DOT) com> wrote

Yes, I get that, but it is almost meaningless. New cars from the factory
are good. Cars with 25,000 miles are starting to show the flaws. That is
what counts in reliability. I can assemble a car with duct tape and get it
out the showroom door.

What part of long term reliability don't you get?

DUH Like I said they are surveying the average NEW car buyers who recently
bought cars, not USED car owners.

If they waited five years the survey would be useless because in five years
the cars on sales then are not the same cars that were sold five years
sooner.

If the wanted to survey buyers that still owned their new car five years
later to print for those who might be looking at a USED car, they would do
so, but there would be far fewer original owners to survey and they would
first need to find those that STILL own their car.

It is far cheaper and easier to simply buy the list of recent buyer from the
manufacturer

By the way where do you live that you see cars today that are starting to
show wear at 25K, Russia?





"Ed Pawlowski" <esp (AT) snet (DOT) net> wrote

"Mike" <mikehunt2 (AT) lycos (DOT) com> wrote in message
Never said five years. I said some amount of miles that will offer true
predictability of the drivetrain that is often used for many years and many
models. Like the old 4 speed automatic GM ued for a long time with some
tweaks.


No, the Buick LeSabre in my driveway.

I'm try one more time then I give up, BECAUSE they are surveying NEW car
buyers not USED car buyers.

The average new vehicle buyer in the US REPLACES that vehicle with another
NEW vehicle in three to four years with an average of 30,000 t0 45,000 miles
on the odometer.


"Ed Pawlowski" <esp (AT) snet (DOT) net> wrote