I will be doing a timing belt change on my 2000 Civic Si in a few
months. I've got what I think is a complete parts list for the job
(see below), but I'm not 100% sure if I have the right part for the
crankshaft oil seal. I read somewhere that the oil seal under the "OIL
PUMP-OIL STRAINER (2)" is the same as the front crankshaft oil seal.
Is this right? Here is my part list and the item in question:

14400-P2T-004 BELT (124RU26 D-130)
31110-P2T-004 BELT, ALTERNATOR
56992-P2T-003 BELT, P.S. PUMP
19200-P72-013 WATER PUMP
19301-P08-316 THERMOSTAT ASSY.
91213-PR3-004 OIL SEAL (29X43X8) (camshaft x 2)
91212-PR3-003 OIL SEAL (38X50X7.4) <--- crankshaft oil seal??
14510-P30-003 TENSIONER
14516-P2T-000 SPRING
12341-PR3-000 GASKET, HEAD COVER

I know there has been discussions before about whether or not to
replace to replace the oil seals during timing belt service. I decided
to replace mine since it has taken me 7 years to put 65K on the dial.
I may not be back in that area of the engine for another 7 years.

The front crank seal is just under the timing belt gear. Its a good idea
to replace it since you have to do ALL the disassembly if you have to do
it later. I would leave the cam seals out of your list unless they are
leaking. They arent a big deal to replace if they do start leaking later.

Happy wrenching!

-SP

Greg wrote:

Greg wrote:
My recommendation would be to replace all of the oil seals. It's the
equivalent of buying an insurance policy for your new timing belt. If oil
gets on the new belt, it can weaken it and cause it to fail prematurely.
The key is getting the seals installed correctly. The factory seal drivers
work great but they're a bit expensive. For an alternative, check out the
info in one of my prior posts. http://tinyurl.com/2gjj9n. The washers I
bought were called 'machine washers' by the hardware store. They worked
pretty good. Whatever you do, just don't tap on the seal directly with a
tool in order to drive it into the bore. More often than not, this will
wind up damaging the seal. Put the large washer up against the seal, then
you can tap on the washer to drive the seal in the last little bit to square
it up with the seal bore.

By the way, I would add upper spark plug tube seals to your parts list.
These should be part # 12342-PG6-000 and you'll need 4 of them. They tend
to get compressed and the rubber hardens up over time. This can cause oil
leaks into the spark plug tubes which can then cause running problems.

Eric

Thanks for your messages. The car has been getting Mobil 1 for most of
its life and has regular changes, so I'm thinking the seals are
probably all in good shape, especially since I only have about 65K
miles on the car. The parts are relatively cheap, though, so maybe I
should just have them on hand in case oil is really leaking out (as
opposed to just "wet").

Speaking of mileage, I called a local dealer and also a trusted import
shop (the price difference is amazing!), and the import shop said not
to replace it until 105K. The dealer said the ones they take off are
usually in good shape, and that I could go another year or two. So now
I'm back at square one: the service manual says 7 years (84 months) or
105K. I have 7 years but only 65K, and I know I won't get to 105K
until another 4 years. Should I wait? I understand I'm in deep doo-doo
if the belt breaks, but I'm suspecting the service manual is probably
conservative. What would you all do?

The other factor is that I will be DIY with a friend of mine who has a
garage lift, experience, etc., so I'd be lying if a part of me didn't
want to do this procedure early anyway. But if I know for sure I could
wait another year or two it would be tempting to hold off. Either way,
I just want to do the right thing for my car since I hope to keep it
long enough for my son to learn to drive it, which is about 13 years
from now!

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:21:47 -0800, Greg wrote:

Personally, I would do it now.

Greg wrote:
What kind of environment does the car spend it's time in? Mild
climates with neither extreme heat nor cold are much easier on the
rubber parts than are climates with extreme heat and/or cold. Maine
winters, Arizona summers ... these things are hard on a car. San Jose,
California area weather with the car garaged at night ... very easy on
the vehicle.

In any case, I wouldn't change the seals at your stage.

John

jim beam wrote:
If you can't get the seal out without scratching its bore, then you should
definitely leave it alone. However, replacing the seals was standard
practice at the independent Honda shop I worked at. It's fairly easy to get
the old seals out without any problems using a small straight bladed screw
driver. Indeed, I along with the other techs in the shop did it all the
time and never had any problems.

Please refrain from applying prejudicial stereotypes where they do not
belong. I have never worked on "detroit garbage" and hopefully never will
nor do I consider my 10 years of professional experience to have been
plagued by bad habits. Moreover, a shop tech cannot control the type of oil
someone puts in their engine at some point in the future. Replacing the
seals is therefore a good practice to ensure that the timing belt stays dry
avoiding costly comebacks. In addition, in replacing the timing belt the
gears are typically removed and cleaned which leaves the seals exposed. The
cost of the seals and the small amount of labor is trivial compared to the
cost of a prematurely failed timing belt due to oil contamination.

Eric