Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff

#11

Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com> wrote in
news:eGVWh.347904$5j1.227332 (AT) bgtnsc04-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

Quote:

Tegger wrote:
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com> wrote in
news:IzzWh.66106$VU4.50870 (AT) bgtnsc05-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

Typically specific lubrication procedures will be required (or
prohibited) to ensure proper torque. So pay particular attention to
any such instructions. It's been my experience that it's necessary to
lube head bolt threads with engine oil.

I have always used engine oil but since I'll be working on a Honda
block involving disimilar metals, I believe an antiseize grease might
be in order.

I think you'll find engine oil is specified. Anti-seize will alter the
friction characteristics of the thread mating surfaces. Do not change
Honda's specification when working with such important fasteners as head
bolts.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

#12

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

Quote:

I was getting ready to spend today overhauling the $200 Honda which has
one bad cylinder which I suspect is a broken ring.

At any rate, I have received mixed opinions on the reuse of head bolts
that evidently were a "one use" only type. Especially perplexing was
the price wanted for new ones... $16 apiece, seven total required.

Many engine designs have used a torque-to-yield design where the bolt
actually is stretched when being installed and will not return to it's
original dimensions when removed. I don't know if your Honda used such
a design or not, but if I were rebuilding one I sure would find out!

#13

Hey Grumpy, you sure started a pretty long thread!

Most of it is correct, and your replies show you are on the right track too.

-Yes, they say those bolts are only one use, but I have re-used them in
D-15 motors with NO problems. IF you have a problem it will be when the
threaded portion breaks off on the final torque. If that should happen,
your $16 ea will be well spent.

Run a tap into each of those head bolt holes. I've pulled out LOTS of
crap from the bottom of a hole that would have screwed up torque values.

Engine oil on threads?? Forget it! I saw an interesting demonstration by
an ARP guy torqueing fasteners with oil and assembly lube. The oiled one
creaked as it was torqued. The other one was quiet, and torqued
smoothly. ARP assembly lube is $15 for a tube but it will last a long
time. I also use nev-r-seize too, and it works well.

I would worry more about the rod bolts. THESE are the ones that snap
when re-used and should be checked carefully.

-SP

#14

On Apr 21, 10:16 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com>
wrote:

Quote:

Tegger wrote:
Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com> wrote in news:YjuWh.65383
$VU4.13... (AT) bgtnsc05-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

At any rate, any comments?

Is the head gasket steel sandwiched with teflon, or is it fiber sandwiched
with steel?

??? Appears to be fiber sandwiching steel.

And what kind of tightening spec does your manual specify?

25 ft lbs 1st round and 47 2nd round. Doesn't mention a thing about
"one use" bolts.

JT

If the manual gives a torque spec and doesn't mention using new bolts,
I would assume they are reused. Is this the official Honda manual?

#15

z wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 21, 10:16 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com
wrote:

Tegger wrote:

Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com> wrote in news:YjuWh.65383
$VU4.13... (AT) bgtnsc05-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

At any rate, any comments?

Is the head gasket steel sandwiched with teflon, or is it fiber sandwiched
with steel?

??? Appears to be fiber sandwiching steel.

And what kind of tightening spec does your manual specify?

25 ft lbs 1st round and 47 2nd round. Doesn't mention a thing about
"one use" bolts.

JT

If the manual gives a torque spec and doesn't mention using new bolts,
I would assume they are reused. Is this the official Honda manual?

Yes.

JT

#16

z <gzuckier (AT) snail-mail (DOT) net> wrote in
news:1177514332.933819.30090 (AT) s33g2000prh (DOT) googlegroups.com:

Quote:

On Apr 21, 10:16 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com
wrote:
Tegger wrote:
Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com> wrote in
news:YjuWh.65383 $VU4.13... (AT) bgtnsc05-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

At any rate, any comments?

Is the head gasket steel sandwiched with teflon, or is it fiber
sandwiched with steel?

??? Appears to be fiber sandwiching steel.

And what kind of tightening spec does your manual specify?

25 ft lbs 1st round and 47 2nd round. Doesn't mention a thing about
"one use" bolts.

If the manual gives a torque spec and doesn't mention using new bolts,
I would assume they are reused. Is this the official Honda manual?

Yes.

Honda is quite specific when bolts need to be replaced and not reused.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

#17

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

Quote:

If the manual gives a torque spec and doesn't mention using new bolts,
I would assume they are reused. Is this the official Honda manual?

Yes.

JT

If the factory service manual says nothing about needing to use new
bolts then I would not worry about it. When torque to yield bolts are
used the factory manuals normally are quite clear about the need for new
ones.

John

#18

John Horner wrote:

Quote:

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

If the manual gives a torque spec and doesn't mention using new bolts,
I would assume they are reused. Is this the official Honda manual?

Yes.

JT

If the factory service manual says nothing about needing to use new
bolts then I would not worry about it. When torque to yield bolts are
used the factory manuals normally are quite clear about the need for new
ones.

John

That's my conclusion.

We'll find out soon...

JT

#19

Tegger wrote:

Quote:

z <gzuckier (AT) snail-mail (DOT) net> wrote in
news:1177514332.933819.30090 (AT) s33g2000prh (DOT) googlegroups.com:

On Apr 21, 10:16 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com
wrote:

Tegger wrote:

Grumpy AuContraire <Gru... (AT) ExtraGrumpyville (DOT) com> wrote in
news:YjuWh.65383 $VU4.13... (AT) bgtnsc05-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

At any rate, any comments?

Is the head gasket steel sandwiched with teflon, or is it fiber
sandwiched with steel?

??? Appears to be fiber sandwiching steel.

And what kind of tightening spec does your manual specify?

25 ft lbs 1st round and 47 2nd round. Doesn't mention a thing about
"one use" bolts.

If the manual gives a torque spec and doesn't mention using new bolts,
I would assume they are reused. Is this the official Honda manual?

Yes.

Honda is quite specific when bolts need to be replaced and not reused.

It seems that way since nothing is mentioned about replacing bolts along
with opinion of a couple of Honda guru's around here of which one was
invovled in a lot of racing activity with Gen 1 & 2 Civics.

I should have the whole shebang together by the end of next week.

JT

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Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff

Honda/Acura Vehicles Discussion group for Honda/Acura vehicles. (alt.autos.honda)

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-23-2007 , 06:21 AM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-23-2007 , 11:25 AM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-24-2007 , 04:34 PM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-25-2007 , 10:18 AM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-25-2007 , 11:03 AM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-25-2007 , 12:11 PM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-25-2007 , 04:30 PM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-25-2007 , 04:49 PM

Re: Let's Talk Turkey --- Head Bolts 'n Stuff - 04-25-2007 , 04:52 PM