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Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord
Honda/Acura Vehicles Discussion group for Honda/Acura vehicles. (alt.autos.honda)
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#21
 
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Re: Request opinions on my sort-of-new Accord -
09-19-2009
, 11:10 AM
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Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough. but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them. By the way, the following link to Babcock is good reading for the learning |
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Article/46342/rotor_runout_check_list.aspx
#22
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On 09/19/2009 07:56 AM, hls wrote: "jim beam" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote in message Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough. but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them. I have seen it happen rather frequently. you've seen the symptoms of the braking problem, but i'll bet you haven't seen [or measured] actual disk warpage. I have gotten discs cherry red before when they didnt warp. And I have had them warp on the vehicle within a month or two of having them rotated when no severe overheating was evident. precisely my point! The rotation didnt cause the problem directly. But the normal heating of the rotor disc, being quenched with rain water perhaps, coupled with the use of impact wrenches to hammer the lug nuts on seem to be the factors that cause this. latter, not the former. When you can measure the warp, either on the car or on the brake lathe, then you HAVE warp. indeed, but it's rare. accurate measurement is rare too. I fully agree that corrosion, dirt, etc can cause problems with out of planar rotation. When the disc rotates out of plane, it does not cause the same sort of pulsation that is noted with width variation of the rotor occurs. with single piston calipers, it's almost impossible to tell the difference. Bottom line, IMO, it is a little more complicated problem that a lot of people suspect. To get the best results, the mechanic or home mechanic needs to understand the various factors that are happening., and needs to be careful how he or she remediates those factors. indeed. that is why i'm taking the time to write about what causes and fixes the problem. sure, you can replace the disks, a shop favorite, and it works because the new disk surface is clean! but skimmed disks rarely work because the disk is not cleaned. bottom line - i have cured "warped" rotors on multiple cars multiple times as i describe. most times i've taken a car to tire shop, i have this problem as i drive home. i re-seat [as described] and re-torque when i get home, problem disappears. that simply couldn't happen with a genuinely warped disk. |
he first got the car. At this point the problem may have developed into
something else.
If you drive the car with a shimmy for 10000 miles like the OP did then
that can result in uneven wear on the rotors. When it reaches that point
it becomes very noticeable in the brake pedal and not just the steering
wheel. At that point the problem can only be fixed by replacing or
turning the rotors because the rotors can and do wear unevenly.
Also when it progresses that far if you don't address the problem it
may spread to other wheels because the pulsing pressure in the brake
line circuit may cause uneven wear on the other rotors.
-jim
#23
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| jim beam wrote: On 09/19/2009 07:56 AM, hls wrote: "jim beam"<me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote in message Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough. but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them. I have seen it happen rather frequently. you've seen the symptoms of the braking problem, but i'll bet you haven't seen [or measured] actual disk warpage. I have gotten discs cherry red before when they didnt warp. And I have had them warp on the vehicle within a month or two of having them rotated when no severe overheating was evident. precisely my point! The rotation didnt cause the problem directly. But the normal heating of the rotor disc, being quenched with rain water perhaps, coupled with the use of impact wrenches to hammer the lug nuts on seem to be the factors that cause this. latter, not the former. When you can measure the warp, either on the car or on the brake lathe, then you HAVE warp. indeed, but it's rare. accurate measurement is rare too. I fully agree that corrosion, dirt, etc can cause problems with out of planar rotation. When the disc rotates out of plane, it does not cause the same sort of pulsation that is noted with width variation of the rotor occurs. with single piston calipers, it's almost impossible to tell the difference. Bottom line, IMO, it is a little more complicated problem that a lot of people suspect. To get the best results, the mechanic or home mechanic needs to understand the various factors that are happening., and needs to be careful how he or she remediates those factors. indeed. that is why i'm taking the time to write about what causes and fixes the problem. sure, you can replace the disks, a shop favorite, and it works because the new disk surface is clean! but skimmed disks rarely work because the disk is not cleaned. bottom line - i have cured "warped" rotors on multiple cars multiple times as i describe. most times i've taken a car to tire shop, i have this problem as i drive home. i re-seat [as described] and re-torque when i get home, problem disappears. that simply couldn't happen with a genuinely warped disk. Yeah, I mostly agree. But all of that would have probably applied when he first got the car. At this point the problem may have developed into something else. If you drive the car with a shimmy for 10000 miles like the OP did then that can result in uneven wear on the rotors. When it reaches that point it becomes very noticeable in the brake pedal and not just the steering wheel. At that point the problem can only be fixed by replacing or turning the rotors because the rotors can and do wear unevenly. Also when it progresses that far if you don't address the problem it may spread to other wheels because the pulsing pressure in the brake line circuit may cause uneven wear on the other rotors. -jim |
that condition for that length of time.
#24
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On 09/19/2009 07:56 AM, hls wrote: "jim beam" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote in message Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough. but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them. I have seen it happen rather frequently. you've seen the symptoms of the braking problem, but i'll bet you haven't seen [or measured] actual disk warpage. |
#25
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"jim beam" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote in message news:meKdnVFqzeV0binXnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d (AT) speakeasy (DOT) net... On 09/19/2009 07:56 AM, hls wrote: "jim beam" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote in message Almost any rotors CAN warp if they are mistreated seriously enough. but that almost never happens. even if you get those disks cherry red, you'll have a real hard time warping them. I have seen it happen rather frequently. you've seen the symptoms of the braking problem, but i'll bet you haven't seen [or measured] actual disk warpage. Yes, I have. You are apparently not paying attention. |
determined that warpage has actually occurred, and to what extent it had
happened, there is nothing to distinguish what you describe from the
much more common problem i'm describing. how did you make the
differentiation?
#26
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Yes, I have. You are apparently not paying attention. i was paying attention. absent your presenting any info on how you determined that warpage has actually occurred, and to what extent it had happened, there is nothing to distinguish what you describe from the much more common problem i'm describing. how did you make the differentiation? |
You CAN measure the thickness variation, but I did not do that.
Should have.
#27
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"jim beam" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote Yes, I have. You are apparently not paying attention. i was paying attention. absent your presenting any info on how you determined that warpage has actually occurred, and to what extent it had happened, there is nothing to distinguish what you describe from the much more common problem i'm describing. how did you make the differentiation? Chocked them up in the brake lathe and measured the side variation. |
easily be a seating problem, just like i described.
Quote:
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You CAN measure the thickness variation, but I did not do that. Should have. |
correct diagnosis, merely that you had symptoms - and there is more than
one cause of those symptoms, as i've said all along.
#28
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On 09/26/2009 06:03 AM, hls wrote: "jim beam" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote Yes, I have. You are apparently not paying attention. i was paying attention. absent your presenting any info on how you determined that warpage has actually occurred, and to what extent it had happened, there is nothing to distinguish what you describe from the much more common problem i'm describing. how did you make the differentiation? Chocked them up in the brake lathe and measured the side variation. that doesn't necessarily mean the disk is warped - it could just as easily be a seating problem, just like i described. You CAN measure the thickness variation, but I did not do that. Should have. if you didn't measure it, you can't say for sure that you have the correct diagnosis, merely that you had symptoms - and there is more than one cause of those symptoms, as i've said all along. |
problem.
Problem has occurred some weeks to months AFTER tires were rotated, etc.,
A seating problem would be immediate.
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