2008 Honda Civic Ex Maintenance Schedule

#41

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

That the MM will tell you when the oil needs a change, but if you drive so
little that it takes over a year to reach that threshold, chenge it
anyhow.

No...I mean do you know what Honda's or the motor oil dudes say about
changing oil...the interval, that is?

Quote:

Yes, that's what I was saying.

Outstanding.

Quote:

I don't use Mobil 1, nor have I looked into it, so I can't say.

I wonder....I don't believe that needs changing every year, even if sitting
around undriven.

Quote:

I think we're on the same page.

Yup.

Quote:

Have it in my wife's '07 Odyssey. Seems to indicate a change at what I
perceive to be a reasonable amount of mileage. Not being an automotive
engineer, I'm not 100% certain it is correct, but I have faith in the
engineers who know more than I.

Well...I do too, or else I wouldn't have spent my cash on an Accord!

Quote:

I know that my '01 EX-V6 Accord, which doesn't have the same MM as my
wife's '07, I've not been changing the oil till indicated (no percentage
gauge, just a flashing light to indicate), I don't change the oil till
flashing, use regular old dino oil (or whatever 5W-20 is these days) and
my car with just a tad over 199,000 miles is still going strong.

That's awesome.....I was just mentioning that the 200k mark is a big one,
and not really the norm. You have definately gotten your money's worth with
that '01 Accord. How long you predict it shall last..mileage wise?

Peace,
Polfus

#42

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

And does Mobil 1 synthetic break down "just sitting there"? I didn't
believe it did.

I don't use Mobil 1, nor have I looked into it, so I can't say.

Just wanted to say I found info that the shelf life of even conventional
motor oil is 3 years.

So that brings us back to what I was saying to begin with...

Peace,
Polfus

#43

"jim beam" <spamvortex (AT) bad (DOT) example.net> wrote

Quote:

1) What mileage or interval does Honda recommend you change the oil at?

at what mileage interval do you refill with gas? or do you watch the
gauge and fill when empty? because that's all the maint minder is - a
gauge.

No answer, I see.

You're banter just as re-inforces that this info is most definately NOT
spelled out clearly in the Owner's Manual, which you accused someone of
being stupid because they asked about it.

Quote:

2) If the MM isn't reset after service, when is the next oil change
actually due?

do you notice if you forget to fill with gas? because the gauge will show
"empty" if you don't re-set.

Good point...but I'm just telling you what the mighty Owner's Manual states.

Quote:

bottom line - you're just humping virtually every post in sight,
presumably because you're bored. have your parents grounded you for
something?

You *are* Frank Burns.

Quote:

and you post unspeakable crap. "osmolarity", "chemical structure" and
spectrometry for example, when you haven't the slightest idea what those
things are.

You say that with such...gusto...its kinda sweet, really.

Quote:

the gauge uses a formula built up over time. if the input [time, rpms,
throttle, temp, etc.] are measured, and correlated to output by honda's
engineers, the output can be measured to a very high degree of accuracy.
not "trusting" it and continuing to bleat about mileage schedules is like
not trusting the engine computer to inject the right amount of gas - an
utterly ridiculous concept.

You just can't see the point no matter what you do...

Quote:

as for synthetics, as per the algorithm, input is known. accumulated
combustion product buildup rate, that this algorithm models, will be the
same regardless of oil. can synthetics run longer? sure. but the
engineering "safe" solution is to go on the level of combustion product
accumulation, not rely on variance in oil formulation.

Duh..and you need chemical analysis to do so...whats wrong with gas
chromatography/mass spectrometry, for example?

Quote:

now, you go ahead and hump this post polfus. maybe even throw in a few
naughty cuss words. then go to bed and let your mommy read you a story
about the big bad oil bears and how they'll eat your [daddy's] car if you
don't change the oil every 3k miles.

Goe fugg yerselv.

Seriously.

Polfus

#44

On Feb 4, 9:47 pm, "Seth" <seth_lermanNOS... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
snip

Quote:

I know that my '01 EX-V6 Accord, which doesn't have the same MM as my
wife's '07, I've not been changing the oil till indicated (no percentage
gauge, just a flashing light to indicate), I don't change the oil till
flashing, use regular old dino oil (or whatever 5W-20 is these days) and my
car with just a tad over 199,000 miles is still going strong.

Super!
Please review your oil change receipts, calculate the average oil
change interval (miles) and post that.

For those not trusting the MM, how's that for a benchmark?

#45

"ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

On Feb 4, 9:47 pm, "Seth" <seth_lermanNOS... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com
wrote:
snip

I know that my '01 EX-V6 Accord, which doesn't have the
same MM as my
wife's '07, I've not been changing the oil till indicated
(no percentage
gauge, just a flashing light to indicate), I don't change
the oil till
flashing, use regular old dino oil (or whatever 5W-20 is
these days) and my
car with just a tad over 199,000 miles is still going
strong.

Super!
Please review your oil change receipts, calculate the
average oil
change interval (miles) and post that.

For those not trusting the MM, how's that for a benchmark?

To update the thread, we do have some reports on when the MM
is calling for an oil change:
Jan 21 JXStern and Elliot Richmond: About every 6k miles,
twice now.
Jan 13 Joe L.: About every 6k miles, twice now.
Aug 5 2007 Santos: About every 6500-6800 miles, four times.
Dec 4 2006 John H.: About every 7k miles.

#46

"Elle" <honda.lioness (AT) nospam (DOT) earthlink.net> wrote

Quote:

To update the thread, we do have some reports on when the MM
is calling for an oil change:
Jan 21 JXStern and Elliot Richmond: About every 6k miles,
twice now.
Jan 13 Joe L.: About every 6k miles, twice now.
Aug 5 2007 Santos: About every 6500-6800 miles, four times.
Dec 4 2006 John H.: About every 7k miles.

Interesting...thanks for that info!

Peace,
Polfus

#47

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

But you tell me specifically where it answers these two simple
questions..I
have my manual in hand and await your scary knowledge:

1) What mileage or interval does Honda recommend you change the oil at?

When the MM tells you to or a year, whichever comes first.

I anticipated that you would say that, but hoped you had enough brains and
class not to.

Looks like I was wrong.

Quote:

2) If the MM isn't reset after service, when is the next oil change
actually
due?

Gee, you mean it's up to the DRIVER to KNOW HIS CAR and MAINTAIN it,

Woah..wait a damn minute..you just said to forget all that and watch when
the MM lights up.

I am not supposed to know my car..I am just supposed to watch for the little
reminder to come on.

Like a blind mouse...just follow along and hope its right, because if I
"KNOW HIS CAR and MAINTAIN it", then maybe I need to know what mileage Honda
recommends I change the motor oil at? You know, in case the MM fails?

Quote:

including watching the dash and seeing that the MM is reset?

What will we DO? Honda isn't SPOON-FEEDING US ENOUGH. They're not
WIPING OUR NOSES ENOUGH.

I don't want them to wipe my nose or spoon feed me at all.

I prefer they don't, in fact.

Wild thing really at this point is WHY don't you care about knowing this
information, and why are you 100% trusting of a computer?

Polfus

#48

E wrote
"Polfus" <nostringscouldsecureyou@thestation> wrote

Quote:

so I can know how much to set aside when a big service job
is coming up..know what I mean? Stuff that I can't do
myself.

I thought the MM does sort of organize things so one can
tell readily whether "Major service" with myriad items is
due, and when a simply oil change is due.

Quote:

These engineering and business types are mostly
reasonable people, ya know.

Well...at least the engineering types are

Engineers are as corrupted by the almighty buck as the next
guy. Case in point: The Big Dig (Boston tunnel) collapsed a
few years ago killing a woman. It's pretty clear the
engineers made some poor choices based in economics (= more
profit for their companies).

The Army Corps of Engineers has been under fire since
Hurricane Katrina for accepting levy design. From my
experience, the truth is that to keep one's job in
engineering one had better bring things in ostensibly safe
but also under budget. It was the people as much as anything
that demanded cheap. An ethical engineer with the Army Corps
is in a tough position. His/her only choice is to stick
around and hope to make things a little safer but really not
safe enough. Or leave.

The auto industry has had many engineers who have bowed to
economic demands to keep their jobs. That's pointing a
finger at the engineers, mind you, not the business people.
Sometimes the good fight is worth it. You say, "No. I am not
going to do this." The really intelligent ones discreetly
point out the bad publicity for putting in unsafe
engineering blah blah will cost more than the company stands
to make.

Quote:

They did not just make up that oil breakdown depends
largely on all the aforementioned conditions.

Agreed. Though some degree of it may be marketing, you may
admit.

Marketing for selling those cars with a MM, sure. Sales guy
says, "And look at the 2008 model's Maintenance Minder! This
car is a bargain for all that the MM provides!"

Apart from the higher purchase price the MM produces, I
think the MM does likely save money for maintenance.

Does the maintenance savings justify the extra initial
purchase price? Maybe.

Quote:

I should add I base some of my faith on a Consumer
Reports article that studied taxicabs in NYC and
especially oil quality, so as to give counsel on when to
change oil. IIRC, even with the severe duty of cabs, CR
found changing the oil every 7000 miles or so should be
fine. Google for the whole article.

Read it already...here's another one, some videos . Check
out the Las Vegas one:

"Mobil 1 Extended Performance Field Testing"

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Videos/TV.aspx

Mobil oil did this. Ya think there's a conflict of interest?

Quote:

The point is there are limits. Tradeoffs. Engineers and
the business managers weigh tradeoffs. If you can't list
a dozen potential tradeoffs for the MM system right now,
even if you're just a beginner with cars, then you're not
seeing the whole picture. For now, Honda figures the MM
design is an asset to the business.

Agreed.

And a dozen tradeoffs?

Added cost of MM vs. possible lower sales due to higher
price of car.

Will having a rad coolant change feature in the MM justify
the added cost of this feature? Same goes for the other
dozen or so items the MM reports on.

Volume taken by MM vs. using the space for a larger
windshield washer bottle <wink>

Locating Maintenance Minder in XYZ vs. ABC, pros and cons.

MM sensor etc. failure rate cost vs. cost of doing
maintenance prematurely over life of car.

Your tradeoffs are in the same vein.

Point is it's not perfect. Honda estimates it to be an
improvement and of course worth every penny to customers.
;-)

Quote:

Do you know why they do not put an engine oil chemistry
monitor on every Honda automobile?

Cost? Beats me...tell me please.

Cost. Space.

Evidently BMW and Mercedes do have an oil chemistry monitor
built into their cars, as Tegger noted recently and as I
just confirmed.

I also see something called an "Intellistick" available for
the wealthy playboy grease monkey to purchase for monitoring
oil chemistry.

$500.

Quote:

3) When you use a synthetic oil, Honda states at that
point that we should follow the new recommendations of
the synthetic oil manufacturer; i.e. Mobil 1's
guidelines.

Where does Honda say this? I just checked, at random, a
2002 Civic owner's manual. It says follow the same
maintenance schedule as one would for non-synth oil.

Dude..my bad. Its the same..Honda says in the 2008 as well
to do what it says in the information display, even when
using synthetic.

6) Never underestimates the power of greed and money,
and refer back to #5.

I agree, and I do not say this casually. It's what's
behind the counsel here to never trust a dealership when
it comes to fixing and maintaining one's car.

Problem is we gotta trust 'em some...

Most folks do indeed have to. Their time is too valuable to
hang out here.

Quote:

scary to know whats the truth, so thats another reason why
I would like all the info I could get on my car,
especially on things like changing oil/filter and some
kind of guideline other that "trust the computer and shut
up".

Agreed.

#49

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

That would require having on-board info in a hard drive that knows the
chemical structure, osmolarity, density from the light spectrometer
thingy,
etc., of each and every oil,

No, it simple means specifying a minimum standard of motor oil--the
specifications of which are published.

That helps a consumer grab a quart of oil designed to fit the performance of
the engine in use.

Still...that does nothing to test the actual condition of the actual motor
oil once it's in the engine.

Quote:

What is it nowadays--API SJ?

Yes.

Quote:

Read. It's good for you.

The API SJ designation is a *minimum* standard that oil must meet, but there
is no additional designation for outstanding or superior oils within the SJ
designation.

And here's something to read, even if it directly or indirectly relates to
this subject:

http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sj-sl-2004.html

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/home.htm

Polfus

#50

"Polfus" <nostringscouldsecureyou@thestation> wrote

Quote:

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

That the MM will tell you when the oil needs a change, but if you drive
so little that it takes over a year to reach that threshold, chenge it
anyhow.

No...I mean do you know what Honda's or the motor oil dudes say about
changing oil...the interval, that is?

Yeah, when the MM says to or 1 year, whichever comes first. I know of no
other.

Quote:

Yes, that's what I was saying.

Outstanding.

I don't use Mobil 1, nor have I looked into it, so I can't say.

I wonder....I don't believe that needs changing every year, even if
sitting around undriven.

I have no scientific fact, only that logically it makes sense. It has
contaminants eating away at it even if just sitting there.

Quote:

I think we're on the same page.

Yup.

Have it in my wife's '07 Odyssey. Seems to indicate a change at what I
perceive to be a reasonable amount of mileage. Not being an automotive
engineer, I'm not 100% certain it is correct, but I have faith in the
engineers who know more than I.

Well...I do too, or else I wouldn't have spent my cash on an Accord!

I know that my '01 EX-V6 Accord, which doesn't have the same MM as my
wife's '07, I've not been changing the oil till indicated (no percentage
gauge, just a flashing light to indicate), I don't change the oil till
flashing, use regular old dino oil (or whatever 5W-20 is these days) and
my car with just a tad over 199,000 miles is still going strong.

That's awesome.....I was just mentioning that the 200k mark is a big one,
and not really the norm. You have definately gotten your money's worth
with that '01 Accord. How long you predict it shall last..mileage wise?

Got home today at 199,178. I fear the engine will last well beyond the
transmission. It's being an '01 V6-AT having not had any problems (except
for the occasional code (P0980 I think)) it is already on borrowed time.