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automatic transmission failure question
Honda automobiles Honda automobiles. (rec.autos.makers.honda)
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#21
 
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Re: automatic transmission failure question -
04-27-2009
, 04:45 AM
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Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:45:38 -0700, jim beam wrote: krp wrote: "Hachiroku ハチ*ク" <Trueno (AT) e86 (DOT) GTS> wrote in message news  an.2009.04.26.15.01.16.164538 (AT) e86 (DOT) GTS...On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:46:31 -0700, techman41973 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote: I have a 97 Honda Accord with 280K. Recently, I pulled over from driving to check a map and when I put my car back in D, the engine just raced like it was in neutral when I gave it gas. The reverse gear worked for a bit in the parking lot, eventually no shifter position resulted in movement of the vehicle. In D & R and only on a small number of throttle applications, the car started moving forward slightly, similar to that brief moment before the clutch on a manual transmission is fully engaged. Before I pulled over my transmission was working absolutely perfectly. The AAA tow guy and several repair shops told me over the phone that the auto transmission needs to be replaced (~$2000). Not worth it with the age of the car. Its now sitting in my driveway. Ideally, I would tow it to a mechanic and have them verify this for sure. Im not sure its worth spending the money just to confirm this. Is there much of a chance that this problem would require a repair that doesnt involve replacing the entire automatic transmission? Thanks One more question. It may take a while before I sell it. I plan on starting the engine once every 2-weeks or so to keep the engine in good order and battery charged. Should I add an oil or gasoline preservative? Did you check the fluid level? That would be the first thing I'd check. Low level will cause exactly what you're talking about. If it's not sealed, change or clean the screen (and report back the condition of any debris you find...) and drain as much as you can and replace it. If you're adventerous, you can lift the front of the car, wheels off the ground, pull the trans cooler lines (the one that pumps to the radiator), get a few quarts of trans fluid and 'flush' the tranny by letting the car idle in drive and pump the fluid out the tube while you replace it through the filler. However, on a tranny this old that sounds like it may have never been service, this could remove the loose friction material which may be the only thing keeping it moving! DON'T have it powerflushed!!! It's too old, and then you really would need to replace it. Sounds like he might luck out with just a normal fluid change and new trans filter. Not big bucks. Most shops will do it for around $100. wasting money on oil without a proper diagnosis is ridiculous. A whole $25? Big deal. It's going to cost more than that for a 'diagnosis'. and be completely wasted because the probability of it being simply oil is next to zero. you know about honda transmissions, right? |
contaminated. At almost 300K it is quite possible depending on how it has
been driven that the fluid is bad. When you consider HOW automatic
transmissions work, with the fluid to shift, if that fluid has gone bad (at
300k???) it may not want to shift. I grant you that is more common on
American Automatics, but the same concepts apply. You could be right that it
is a waste of time and money. BUT it might not be. However SMALL the chances
are it's better than just leaving it sit in the driveway or spending $2000
to fix it. He might be able to pick up a working trans at a bone yard for a
couple hundred bucks.
#22
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Pay attention. The guy is driving a 12 year old car. Most likely he's NOT Donald Trump. Given that - he can PAY to have it towed to a dealer or transmission shop for a diagnosis. MAYBE free maybe cost. What can a SHADETREE mechanic do to check stuff out? First check the trans dipstick. Then change fluid. If it is still dead, get a different trans at the bone yard or send it to the crusher and get an 11 year old Honda. just because /you/ have been brainwashed with that detroit thinking, doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it up the ass the same way. 11 years is nothing for a honda - unless it's rusty or crashed. repair and get another 10 years of free motoring. |
Let's start with facts NOT in evidence here. I own a 2008 Honda CR-V.
280,000 miles is a great deal EVEN FOR a Civic. My bet is the car has been
neglected. Almost nobody changes the fluids or filters in their automatics
until it stops. With proper maintenance a modern automatic transmission
should last almost indefinitely with normal use. However IF you are pulling
a 65 foot boat with your Civic, it may not last that long. It's nice playing
the role of a SMUG SMART ASS on the internet. With a problem like this you
start with the obvious of checking the trans stick which may not tell you
much. If you feel the fluid and feel no grit than you do stage 2, put it
back on and then let it drip on a paper towel and look. What color is it?
How does it smell? Burned? In any event for the average guy, draining the
fluid and replacing it with fresh Honda ATF is the next cheapest. (While
under the car check for damage and leaks.) If it is still dead - they you
are faced with repair or replace. You are right, the Honda transmissions are
very durable, which means it should not be very hard to find a serviceable
trans in a bone yard. Or you can take it to a trans shop.
#23
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I have a 97 Honda Accord with 280K. Recently, I pulled over from driving to check a map and when I put my car back in D, the engine just raced like it was in neutral when I gave it gas. The reverse gear worked for a bit in the parking lot, eventually no shifter position resulted in movement of the vehicle. In D & R and only on a small number of throttle applications, the car started moving forward slightly, similar to that brief moment before the clutch on a manual transmission is fully engaged. Before I pulled over my transmission was working absolutely perfectly. The AAA tow guy and several repair shops told me over the phone that the auto transmission needs to be replaced (~$2000). Not worth it with the age of the car. Its now sitting in my driveway. Ideally, I would tow it to a mechanic and have them verify this for sure. Im not sure its worth spending the money just to confirm this. Is there much of a chance that this problem would require a repair that doesnt involve replacing the entire automatic transmission? Thanks One more question. It may take a while before I sell it. I plan on starting the engine once every 2-weeks or so to keep the engine in good order and battery charged. Should I add an oil or gasoline preservative? Did you check the fluid level? That would be the first thing I'd check. Low level will cause exactly what you're talking about. If it's not sealed, change or clean the screen (and report back the condition of any debris you find...) and drain as much as you can and replace it. If you're adventerous, you can lift the front of the car, wheels off the ground, pull the trans cooler lines (the one that pumps to the radiator), get a few quarts of trans fluid and 'flush' the tranny by letting the car idle in drive and pump the fluid out the tube while you replace it through the filler. However, on a tranny this old that sounds like it may have never been service, this could remove the loose friction material which may be the only thing keeping it moving! DON'T have it powerflushed!!! It's too old, and then you really would need to replace it. Sounds like he might luck out with just a normal fluid change and new trans filter. Not big bucks. Most shops will do it for around $100. wasting money on oil without a proper diagnosis is ridiculous. A whole $25? Big deal. It's going to cost more than that for a 'diagnosis'. and be completely wasted because the probability of it being simply oil is next to zero. you know about honda transmissions, right? ANY automatic transmission can shut down when the lubricant is contaminated. At almost 300K it is quite possible depending on how it has been driven that the fluid is bad. When you consider HOW automatic transmissions work, with the fluid to shift, if that fluid has gone bad (at 300k???) it may not want to shift. I grant you that is more common on American Automatics, but the same concepts apply. You could be right that it is a waste of time and money. the chances of filter clogging onset so sudden and so severe as described is almost zero. |
up and quit. Most folks pay no attention to warning signs until a car just
quits.
Quote:
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BUT it might not be. However SMALL the chances are it's better than just leaving it sit in the driveway or spending $2000 to fix it. He might be able to pick up a working trans at a bone yard for a couple hundred bucks. that fix is what i said - buy used low mileage jdm. great solution. a solution not available for you detroit guys - ha ha! |
depending on what transmission you are talking about, American automatics
are VERY durable, with some GM transmissions being a rather notorious
exception. GM went through period when their automatics were pure SHIT!
(Late 80's) For the most part if you maintained a trans, changing the fluid
and filter about every 24,000 miles they'd run forever. Chrysler had some
problems with the transmissions on some minivans. Ford has had fairly
reliable if unspectacular automatics.
#24
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I have a 97 Honda Accord with 280K. <snip> Is there much of a chance that this problem would require a repair that doesnt involve replacing the entire automatic transmission? |
If you checked the fluid and linkage and they're OK, I guess there's
still a *chance* that the transmission isn't gone... But on a 97 HONDA?
with 280k on an automatic? That chance is a near-perfect approximation
to "zero."
A good option to get a little more value out of the car (whether you
keep it or sell it) would be a low-mileage automatic from a wrecking
yard. If you sell it as-is, you're selling so much scrap and you'll get
essentially nothing for it.
#25
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Toyota and Honda generally overengineer things. |
Seriously, Toyota and Honda build very solid *engines*, no question.
But Honda automatic transmissions are the dregs of the industry,
especially back in the late 90s. The mere fact that they have no filter
should tell you a lot. Toyota buys their automatics from Aisin-Seiki,
(which they partially own) and they are quite good.
#26
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| First of all I am NOT a "detroit guy." I own a Honda CR-V. Second of all depending on what transmission you are talking about, American automatics are VERY durable, with some GM transmissions being a rather notorious exception. GM went through period when their automatics were pure SHIT! (Late 80's) For the most part if you maintained a trans, changing the fluid and filter about every 24,000 miles they'd run forever. |
Corsica. Those are the most common GM cars of the era.
No trans problems.
You might find a specific GM bad trans, but they weren't common.
Baloney on a trans lasting forever too. They wear out just like
anything else, no matter what brand.
And they can all be abused.
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Chrysler had some problems with the transmissions on some minivans. Ford has had fairly reliable if unspectacular automatics. Baloney on Ford trans. The Taurus were notorious for that plastic |
trans fixed. Both the same plastic piece.
Biggest bitches I've heard about transmissions for years is the Taurus
and Accord. But Honda at least made an attempt to do something for
their customers.
Now I'm going to get me a sandwich. Baloney.
--Vic
#27
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The AT in the Supra is also rated at 240, and is also used in Jeep Grand Cherokees. |
The AT in the old Cherokee was the Aisin-Warner AW-4, and yes its
related to the Aisin-Sekei automatics used in rear-drive Toyotas. But it
was ONLY used behind the 4.0 six cylinder in the Grand Cherokee (190
HP), never behind the v8 (220 HP for the 5.2 starting in 1992-3). The
early 5.2 Grand Cherokee v8s got the Chrysler 43RH, and then starting
with the 4.7L and later the Hemi, they the 45RFE and ultimately the
545RFE which is also used in Ram pickups.
The AW-4 was pretty solid and reliable, very well suited to serious
off-roading in the Cherokee if you give it a big enough fluid cooler.
But it was a bit weak in the knees for the added weight of the Grand
Cherokee, and in all forms it shifted like the true definition of a
sludgebox. Its the reason I went out of my way to find a Cherokee with a
5-speed (AX-15, also built by Aisin, but its on its last legs and will
be replaced by an NV3550 from a 2000 or newer Jeep).
#28
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wasting money on oil without a proper diagnosis is ridiculous. |
:-p
#29
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just because /you/ have been brainwashed with that detroit thinking, doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it up the ass the same way. 11 years is nothing for a honda - unless it's rusty or crashed. repair and get another 10 years of free motoring. |
could repair it inexpensively and keep it working at top notch
indefinitely (my daily driver is 43 years old). Nothing Japanese has
ever been like that except the Land Cruiser (because its original
engine was bought from GM after WWII). But most modern sedans are built
like "driving appliances." They reach an end-of-life point where its not
practical to keep fixing them. He should fix it for as little as
possible and then UNLOAD it ASAP. Its going to be a money pit from now on.
#30
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On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:16:37 GMT, "krp" <krp34 (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote: First of all I am NOT a "detroit guy." I own a Honda CR-V. Second of all depending on what transmission you are talking about, American automatics are VERY durable, with some GM transmissions being a rather notorious exception. GM went through period when their automatics were pure SHIT! (Late 80's) For the most part if you maintained a trans, changing the fluid and filter about every 24,000 miles they'd run forever. Baloney. I had an '88 Celebrity, '85 Cav, and still drive a 90 Corsica. Those are the most common GM cars of the era. No trans problems. You might find a specific GM bad trans, but they weren't common. Baloney on a trans lasting forever too. They wear out just like anything else, no matter what brand. And they can all be abused. |
Quote:
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Chrysler had some problems with the transmissions on some minivans. Ford has had fairly reliable if unspectacular automatics. Baloney on Ford trans. The Taurus were notorious for that plastic piece breaking. My brother had 2 Taurus. Paid big money to get both trans fixed. Both the same plastic piece. Biggest bitches I've heard about transmissions for years is the Taurus and Accord. But Honda at least made an attempt to do something for their customers. Now I'm going to get me a sandwich. Baloney. |
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