Re: GM still out sells all others

#41

So what's your point? Did you think you could take it to a Toyota dealer

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote

Quote:

Thus spake "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> :

Thanks for helping to prove the point that manufacturers warrant their
vehicles to their dealers!

QUOTE:

"Your satisfaction and goodwill are important to 'YOUR' dealer and to
Chevrolet. NORMALLY, any concerns with the sales transaction or the
operation of your vehicle will be resolved by your dealer's sales or
service
departments. The first step is to discuss your concern with a member of
dealership management. Normally, concerns can be quickly resolved at that
level. To locate a Chevrolet dealer, please visit the Chevrolet Dealer
Locator.

"For more details, please visit 'your' Chevrolet dealer" END QUOTE

I might point out that if you are away from YOUR dealer you can obtain
warranty work at ANY GM dealership, as well

I am reading DIRECTLY from the warranty manual for my 08 Fit.

"You should take your vehicle along with proof of the purchase date to
a Honda automobile dealer during normal service hours. If the
warranty claim is for a replacement part of accessorty that was
originally installed by a Honda dealer, also bring proof of the
vehicle's mileage at the time of installation."

It further goes to say that if the car can't be driven, contact the
nearest Honda dealer for towing, and that I won't have to pay.

And it explains how to get reimbursed for emergency repairs from other
than Honda dealers.

Note: A HONDA AUTOMOBILE DEALER. Not the one you bought the car
from.

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote in message
news:uoqdm4p9ao6pe8n23aco3n05mp33bgbea8 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

You are free to believe whatever you wish. I cold not care less what
anybody
in a NG chooses to believe but here is the way it is, the manufacturer
warrants the vehicle to its dealers, for a specific time and mileage,
period. The coverage offered is up to the manufacturer, period. Any
dealer can submit a warranty claim but if the manufacturer does not
think
it
is warrantable it will be charged back to the dealership that submitted
the
claim, period.. Any time you call the manufacturer with a disputed
warranty claim the will TELL you to take your vehicle back to the
selling
dealer, period.

That is grade A horseshit. Are you telling me that if I buy a car in
Dallas and then move to Austin, I have to take the car back to Dallas?
I think you'll find that the FTC disagrees with you. I know the State
of Texas will.

If you have what you think is a warranty claim, you take it to the
dealer. If they agree (which they do by asking the manufactorer) then
you're covered. If not, THEN you go through the arbitration process.

I filed thousands of warranty claims to just about every manufacturer
and
that is the way it is, period. Anyone who says differently is not
correct,
period. If there is a dispute the vehicle owner MUST first go though
the
manufacturers arbitration procedure, befor going to court as well.

The imports are the hardest, particularly Toyota, to get anything from
after
the WOF time/date, Ford the easiest

"Jeff" <jeff.utz (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:e7f596b5-4bd7-4bb9-978f-6c58b7b96da1 (AT) r13g2000vbp (DOT) googlegroups.com...
On Jan 8, 8:29 pm, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.... (AT) windstream (DOT) net
wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:21:25 -0500, "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com
wrote:

So what's your point? Everyone who reads the warranty manual knows
manufactures warrant their vehicles to their dealers. You comment
should
have been address to those that think differently

Mike, I think you've got it a little bit wrong. The manufacturer
warrants to the owner, not the dealer. If the dealer was the one who
owned the warranty, then there would be no need to transfer the
remaining factory warranty to a new buyer. If the dealer was the one
who owned the warranty, then the factory wouldn't pay any other dealer
for performing the repair and you could only take it to the dealer you
bought it from for warranty repairs.

Jack j

"Jeff" <jeff.... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:81ebcbc5-b4c2-4e1b-abb9-

According to Chevy (a GM brand), warranty work can be done at any
dealer, even if it is not the one that sold the car.

http://www.chevrolet.com/warranty/frequently-asked-questions/

For someone who claims he owned dealerships, you don't have a clue.

jeff

--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

#42

Why would you want to do that if you car is broke down?

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote

Quote:

"For more details, please visit 'your' Chevrolet dealer" END QUOTE

I might point out that if you are away from YOUR dealer you can obtain
warranty work at ANY GM dealership, as well

Okay, the closest Chevy dealer is about 6 miles away. But the best
price I've found on a Silverado (gack, but just an example) is about
20 miles away. Do I drive all the way to Hutto for warranty work?

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote in message
news:uoqdm4p9ao6pe8n23aco3n05mp33bgbea8 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

You are free to believe whatever you wish. I cold not care less what
anybody
in a NG chooses to believe but here is the way it is, the manufacturer
warrants the vehicle to its dealers, for a specific time and mileage,
period. The coverage offered is up to the manufacturer, period. Any
dealer can submit a warranty claim but if the manufacturer does not
think
it
is warrantable it will be charged back to the dealership that submitted
the
claim, period.. Any time you call the manufacturer with a disputed
warranty claim the will TELL you to take your vehicle back to the
selling
dealer, period.

That is grade A horseshit. Are you telling me that if I buy a car in
Dallas and then move to Austin, I have to take the car back to Dallas?
I think you'll find that the FTC disagrees with you. I know the State
of Texas will.

If you have what you think is a warranty claim, you take it to the
dealer. If they agree (which they do by asking the manufactorer) then
you're covered. If not, THEN you go through the arbitration process.

I filed thousands of warranty claims to just about every manufacturer
and
that is the way it is, period. Anyone who says differently is not
correct,
period. If there is a dispute the vehicle owner MUST first go though
the
manufacturers arbitration procedure, befor going to court as well.

The imports are the hardest, particularly Toyota, to get anything from
after
the WOF time/date, Ford the easiest

"Jeff" <jeff.utz (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:e7f596b5-4bd7-4bb9-978f-6c58b7b96da1 (AT) r13g2000vbp (DOT) googlegroups.com...
On Jan 8, 8:29 pm, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.... (AT) windstream (DOT) net
wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:21:25 -0500, "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com
wrote:

So what's your point? Everyone who reads the warranty manual knows
manufactures warrant their vehicles to their dealers. You comment
should
have been address to those that think differently

Mike, I think you've got it a little bit wrong. The manufacturer
warrants to the owner, not the dealer. If the dealer was the one who
owned the warranty, then there would be no need to transfer the
remaining factory warranty to a new buyer. If the dealer was the one
who owned the warranty, then the factory wouldn't pay any other dealer
for performing the repair and you could only take it to the dealer you
bought it from for warranty repairs.

Jack j

"Jeff" <jeff.... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:81ebcbc5-b4c2-4e1b-abb9-

According to Chevy (a GM brand), warranty work can be done at any
dealer, even if it is not the one that sold the car.

http://www.chevrolet.com/warranty/frequently-asked-questions/

For someone who claims he owned dealerships, you don't have a clue.

jeff

--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

#43

I never said that, did you miss the "Normally" that someone quoted from the
warranty manual?

The manufacture warrants the vehicle to it dealer(s.) In a situation where
ones selling dealer has closed down or one has moved a great distance, (most
warranty agreements mention 50 miles) the manufacture will have it towed to
their nearest dealership, same as if one is traveling.

That dealer, unlike your dealer, will most likely not do the work before
receiving prior authorization to do so, till he knows he will be reimbursed.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

In article <x5qdnfkWd43HS_XUnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d (AT) ptd (DOT) net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

When the reference was made to calling the manufacturer about a warranty
PROBLEM, what I said was, if you do they will tell you to contact your
SELLING dealer because DISPUTED warranty claims MUST go to the selling
dealer and that is a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not.

So let me get this straight: you're saying that if I buy a car in Maine
and three months later move to California, and three months after that
have a warranty problem that the servicing dealer in California
disputes, and I want to run it up the chain to the manufacturer's
representative...

....that I have to trek the car back to my SELLING dealer back in MAINE?

#44

What I am trying to get you to understand is the warranty is NOT with the
customer, as apparently many of you believe!! NO dealer is required to work
on cars that were not sold by that dealership.

When I was is retail the partners ALWAYS encouraged our stores to service
any owner, to try to get them as a NEW customer of ours. Manufacturer
warrant to dealers not customers. I KNOW manufacturers do indeed have
warranty work completed at other repair facilities that are AUTHORIZED to be
reimbursed for warrantable repair work, I never said they didn't.

My fleet shops were under contract to just about EVERY manufacturer to do
warranty work, so are transmission, pant, electrical shops etc. That makes
it easier for dealers that do not have enough of that type of work or do
not want to invest in the equipment and workers, to do that type of work.
YOU however can not take your vehicle directly to those shops, you must
either take it to the dealer or have him make arrangements for you.

Before we were AUTHORIZED by the manufacturers, our shops were inspected and
we had to annually buy all of the manufactures REQUIRED special tools and
our techs had to be certified at the manufacturers schools.

When I was Group Sales Manager most of the partners newer group stores used
a single faculty to do warranty work for all of the franchises at the
location, as many as fifteen in one location, rather than as shop at each
store. Again we had to be AUTHORIZED by the manufactures because we did
not do repairs at the retail store. One car have an off site repair
faci;ity but only for the brand(s) sold a that store

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

In article
58b053a2-ee52-42b9-b9ec-960630d1556d...oglegroups.com>,
Jeff <jeff.utz (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

When I took my Apple computer in for service, I had to do it under the
terms of the warranty, which is to the place where Apple specified.
Fortunately, there is an Apple store about 1 block from a stop on my
subway. Although I had to follow the terms of the contract, they
warranty is between Apple and me. Likewise, the warranty for my new
car is between Ford and me. They can specify where I have to take the
car for warranty work (i.e., one of their authorized representatives,
a dealer).

Right.

And as I pointed out, they can ALSO authorize that the work be done
elsewhere. That's Ford's business, as they are paying the freight. If
Ford decides to pay for or reimburse for work done outside of the normal
warranty terms, they can. And they have. So has every other
manufacturer.

Now, if the warranty were between the mfr and the selling dealer, the
selling dealer would have to be part of the deal whereby the owner is
reimbursed for his out of pocket expenses on getting that now-warranted
problem fixed.

And--funny thing. The dealers have NO say in how Ford reimburses for
warranty work. NONE. Ford may reimburse the owner if Ford wants, or
Ford may reimburse the normal dealership channel--under the terms that
Ford has declared, which usually means that warranty repairs don't pay
the tech or the dealership as much as customer-pay repairs.

And on this page (http://www.gm.com/experience/quality/?exist=false),
it says that the owner (not the dealer) is covered.

Wow. Facts.

You know, it's people like My Cunter who make the auto business the
slime that it is.

And now the auto business is paying for that. Bravo.

#45

You are free to believe whatever you choose.

"Jeff" <jeff.utz (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

On Jan 10, 12:18 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el... (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com>
wrote:

Quote:

In article <_rydnabyFuwOTPXUnZ2dnUVZ_uKdn... (AT) ptd (DOT) net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

Use you head dummy if the warranty was to the owner, rather than the
dealer(s,) it would be like those Extended Service plans sold by
independents, you could have the work performed by anyone and the
manufacturers would reimburse you or pay the bill. As it is you MUST go
to
a dealership

That doesn't make it a warranty to the dealership.

Are you SURE you worked in the industry for 40 years? Hint: mopping
the floor in the waiting room doesn't count.

There are third party service plans that dictate to whom you must take
the car for repair, just like the mfr's warranty that states you must
take it to a certain shop for covered repairs.

I think the relevant word here is "senile."

When I took my Apple computer in for service, I had to do it under the
terms of the warranty, which is to the place where Apple specified.
Fortunately, there is an Apple store about 1 block from a stop on my
subway. Although I had to follow the terms of the contract, they
warranty is between Apple and me. Likewise, the warranty for my new
car is between Ford and me. They can specify where I have to take the
car for warranty work (i.e., one of their authorized representatives,
a dealer). But, the warranty is between Ford and me. Likewise, the
warranty on a GM is between GM and the buyer.

GM has this to day about their Pontiac warranty (http://
www.pontiac.com/warranty/):

Do I have to go the Pontiac dealer where I purchased my vehicle to
have this type of work performed?

While most customers prefer to have this type of work performed at
their selling dealer, it can be performed at any Pontiac dealership.

Can I take my Pontiac to any GM dealership for warranty repairs?

These repairs must be performed by an Authorized Pontiac dealer,
except in an emergency situation when a covered part or a Pontiac
dealer is not reasonably available to the vehicle owner. It’s in your
best interest to take your Pontiac vehicle to a Pontiac dealer for all
repairs since they are the most knowledgeable about the particulars of
your vehicle.

And on this page (http://www.gm.com/experience/quality/?exist=false),
it says that the owner (not the dealer) is covered.

When you get a clue, let us know.

Jeff

Jeff

#46

On Jan 11, 4:44*pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

Quote:

I never said that, did you miss the "Normally" that someone quoted from the
warranty manual?

The manufacture warrants the vehicle to it dealer(s.)

Then why does the warranties talk about transferring the warranty to
new owners of the car or truck? Why would there be any need to
transfer the warranty? And, if you were correct, wouldn't the wording
of the warranties reflect that the warranty is to the dealers?

And why does the Chrysler warranty have this language? "You are
covered by the Basic Limited Warranty if
you are a purchaser for use of the vehicle."

And where does it say that the dealer is warranted here?

"In the United States (We Include U.S.
Possessions and Territories as Part of
the United States for Warranty Purposes):
Warranty service must be done by an authorized
Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep dealer. We strongly
recommend that you take your vehicle to your
Selling Dealer. They know you and your vehicle
best, and are most concerned that you get
prompt and high quality service. If you move
within the United States, warranty service may
be requested from any authorized Chrysler,
Dodge or Jeep dealer."

If the selling dealer is warranted, don't you think that that would be
stated in the warranty manual?

And GM says that if you buy a GM car, *you* get a 100,000 mi
powertrain warranty. Not your dealer.

Get a clue, if you can old man.

Jeff

Quote:

* In a situation where
ones selling dealer has closed down or one has moved a great distance, (most
warranty agreements mention 50 miles) the manufacture will have it towed to
their nearest dealership, same as if one is traveling.

That dealer, unlike your dealer, will most likely not do the work before
receiving prior authorization to do so, till he knows he will be reimbursed.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el... (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com> wrote in messagenews:elmop-A6A2D3.13052110012009 (AT) mara100-84 (DOT) onlink.net...

In article <x5qdnfkWd43HS_XUnZ2dnUVZ_snin... (AT) ptd (DOT) net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

When the reference was made to calling the manufacturer about a warranty
PROBLEM, what I said was, if you do they will tell you to contact your
SELLING dealer because DISPUTED warranty claims MUST go to the selling
dealer and that is a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not.

So let me get this straight: *you're saying that if I buy a car in Maine
and three months later move to California, and three months after that
have a warranty problem that the servicing dealer in California
disputes, and I want to run it up the chain to the manufacturer's
representative...

....that I have to trek the car back to my SELLING dealer back in MAINE?

#47

On Jan 11, 4:44*pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

Quote:

I never said that, did you miss the "Normally" that someone quoted from the
warranty manual?

The manufacture warrants the vehicle to it dealer(s.) * In a situation where
ones selling dealer has closed down or one has moved a great distance, (most
warranty agreements mention 50 miles) the manufacture will have it towed to
their nearest dealership, same as if one is traveling.

That dealer, unlike your dealer, will most likely not do the work before
receiving prior authorization to do so, till he knows he will be reimbursed.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el... (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com> wrote in messagenews:elmop-A6A2D3.13052110012009 (AT) mara100-84 (DOT) onlink.net...

In article <x5qdnfkWd43HS_XUnZ2dnUVZ_snin... (AT) ptd (DOT) net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

When the reference was made to calling the manufacturer about a warranty
PROBLEM, what I said was, if you do they will tell you to contact your
SELLING dealer because DISPUTED warranty claims MUST go to the selling
dealer and that is a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not.

So let me get this straight: *you're saying that if I buy a car in Maine
and three months later move to California, and three months after that
have a warranty problem that the servicing dealer in California
disputes, and I want to run it up the chain to the manufacturer's
representative...

....that I have to trek the car back to my SELLING dealer back in MAINE?

If the warranty is to the dealer, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
requires this fact to be stated in the warranty documents. It isn't.

Stop acting like a jerk (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt when
I sat that you are only *acting* like a jerk) and giving people
information that you make that is completely false.

The auto warranties are between the car makers and the buyers. If I am
incorrect, please provide real evidence.

Jeff

#48

me wrote:

Quote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:00:35 -0500, "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com
wrote:

What does that have to do with a complaint to the manufacture? The point
of the thread was that the manufacturers warrant the vehicles to their
dealerships. Try to keep up, WBMA

No they don't. The warranty is to the consumer who purchases the car.
That's Federal Law.

That's a very important fact to understand, not so much for cars (where
retail distribution is tightly controlled), but for other products where
there may be an attempt to use the "authorized dealer" routine to deny
warranty service. As long as the product isn't gray market, the
manufacturer is required to provide service no matter where the product
was purchased. If the manufacturer of a high end product is dumping
excess inventory through other channels, that merchandise still has a
warranty, even though the reseller might not be "authorized." It's up to
the manufacturer to control distribution, not up to the consumer to
figure out if the retailer is "authorized" or not.

TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > § 2307 of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prevent any warrantor from
designating representatives to perform duties under the written or
implied warranty: Provided, That such warrantor shall make reasonable
arrangements for compensation of such designated representatives, _but
no such designation shall relieve the warrantor of his direct
responsibilities to the consumer or make the representative a cowarrantor._

#49

Mike Hunter wrote:

Quote:

You are free to believe whatever you wish. I cold not care less what anybody
in a NG chooses to believe but here is the way it is, the manufacturer
warrants the vehicle to its dealers, for a specific time and mileage,
period.

This is untrue. It would violate federal law if the manufacturer tried
to do this. Read the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and learn.

#50

Mike Hunter wrote:

Quote:

Like I said you are free to believe whatever you wish. I could not care less
what anybody
in a NG chooses to believe but here is the way it is, the manufacturer
warrants the vehicle to its DEALERS, for a specific time and mileage,
period.

The way it actually works is that the manufacturer designates
representatives to perform warranty work. For vehicles, it's generally
any dealer of that specific make, though there are exceptions such as
when a make is discontinued (i.e. Oldsmobile, Plymouth, etc) then the
manufacturer designates a different representative.

You really need to read up on how limited warranties work, specifically
the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You can start here,
"http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ch50.html". Pay close attention to
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > § 2307,

"Designation of representatives by warrantor to perform duties under
written or implied warranty,"

"Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prevent any warrantor
from designating representatives to perform duties under the written or
implied warranty: Provided, That such warrantor shall make reasonable
arrangements for compensation of such designated representatives, but no
such designation shall relieve the warrantor of his direct
responsibilities to the consumer or make the representative a cowarrantor."

For vehicles, the warrantor is the manufacturer, the representative is
the dealer, and the consumer is the purchaser of the vehicle.