That may be your opinion but the tax attorney/CPA that works for me, does.
He stopped buying Lexus' about the time I did because, as he put it, "Japan
Incorporated" is robbing us blind in this country. The difference is he
now buy German luxury cars and I buy domestics



"me" <noemail (AT) nothere (DOT) com> wrote

You can't include the F150 in any discussion of passenger vehicles. Being an
expert on the automobile market, you know why.



"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote

Sounds more to me you are making excuses for your inability to understand
the operation of a vehicle just like that woman, or the one years ago who
complained her car did not run well. We discovered she would hang her purse
on the pulled out the 'choke' lever.


"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

It is true today, the only time one can buy a NEW car.


"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

The full size pickups from both GM and Ford get better fuel mileage than do
the Tundra and Triton, as well. I guess that is why today more buys chose
GM vehicles than from ANY other manufacture. LOL

..

In other words, for a fraction of GM's existence as a car manufacturer.


"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote

Anyone who buys an extended warty is a fool.

Industry statistics prove the fact that only around 1% of ALL the extended
warranties sold in the US EVER pay out more in total than the premium paid
to buy it and the deductible that apply, period.

The fact is every manufacturer today foreign or domestic is building good
dependable, long lasting, vehicles that can easily be run to 150K or more,
trouble free.


"Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley (AT) ugs (DOT) nojunk.com> wrote

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote


Yeah. Most people pay to have them removed by a doctor.

You're getting a late start today, Uncle Jemima.

That may be your opinion but I remember when GM, Ford, Chrysler, Studebaker,
and Nash vehicles would win the "Mobile Economy Run."

What happened in the past may be a factor for you but you are likely, like
most in the NGs, a used car buyer LOL

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

"me" <noemail (AT) nothere (DOT) com> wrote

I cannot speak for Mike, but I have owned many import and domestic
vehicles in the last 37 years. Currently in my immediate family, we
own the following vehicles:

2006 Nissan Frontier SE V6 4WD (70,000 miles)
2006 Mustang V6 Coupe (35,000 miles)
2007 Ford Fusion (37,000 miles)
2007 RAV4 (43,000 miles)
2008 RAV4 (7,000 miles)
2008 RAV4 V6 (3,000 miles)
1999 Ranger V6 4WD (farm truck, 60,000 miles)
2005 Ford Freestyle AWD (40,000 miles)
2008 Mazda3 (6,000 miles)

Only the Mustang has ever been back to the dealer for anything
significant, and that was clearly related to abuse (teenage driver,
but still covered by the warranty). In fact, I'd say the V6 Mustang
has been the most impressive car of all, given the treatment of the
driver. The Nissan Frontier has been to the dealer the most, but
nothing particularly serious (3 minor recalls, an unresolved problem
with the rear jump seats, and an occasional problem with the tank vent
solenoid - there is a TSB, but I don't want to pay for the fix, so I
am living with it). The 2007 RAV4 has a couple of issues (wacky cruise
control operation, rear compartment remote seat back latches aren't
connected, port installed back-up sensors are worthless). The Ranger
has had the crap beat out of it, but has had only one repair - an IAC
valve last year to eliminate a noise problem (moosing, if you
understand Ford speak). The Fusion, Freestyle, Mazda3, and two newest
RAV4 are issue / repair free.

Now maybe my experience is non-typical, but I can't see how if
domestic cars are "crap" and "foreign" cars are great, I would not
have seen a bigger difference. On top of these vehicles there is a
half a century of my parents "good luck" with Fords. I suppose they
managed to only get the good ones. But then I guess I am lucky also.
Since 1986, I've owned a umber of other Ford products - 1986 Mercury
Sable, 149,000 miles (CV Joint boots and a couple of heater hoses,
otherwise fine), 1996 Ford Explorer, 36,000 miles (no problems), 1997
Ford Expedition, 150,000 miles (a couple of minor recalls, one coil
pack, one alternator), 2001 Ford Mustang Convertible, 40,000 miles
(minor oil leak covered under warranty), 2003 Ford Expedition, 100k
miles (one power window mechanism, one TSB applied), 2004 Ford
Thunderbird, 32,000 miles (no problems), 1992 Ford 150, 100,000 miles
(owned for 14 years, farm truck, one alternator, one fuel pump).

Over the years, I also owned an Audi Coupe, a Mazda 626, a Toyota
Cressida, several British sports cars, a Datsun 280Z, a couple of
Pintos, a Fiesta, a Plymouth Reliant, a Ford Ranger, a Ford Courier, a
Ford Fairmont and others. Worst car I every owned was the Cressida,
followed by the Reliant. Best car - probably the Fusion, but check
back with me in a couple of years to confirm. Best bang for the bucks
was probably the Pinto. Most fun for the buck was the British sports
cars, but no one would claim they were practical. I really loved the
2004 Thunderbird, but I just had too many cars sitting around and it
was the least practical, so I let it go (but wish I had not).

I think the one thing everyone in my immediate circle can agree on
is - no VW products, no way, no how. We've collectively owned 4 VW
products (two Jettas, a Passat, and a Audi Coupe). I think we all
would agree they were comfortable and fun to drive, but unreliable and
expensive to maintain.

I don't claim Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans are unreliable. And for
sure my Sisters and SO love their RAV4s. But I would claim there is
nothing special about Toyotas either. Some are good, some are bad,
some are just ordinary, and a few are extra ordinary. I have never
seen anything that leads me to believe that they are especially
reliable. It has been my experience that the parts are especially
expensive. It has also been my experience that for similar vehicles,
with similar equipment, that Toyotas are more expensive than domestic
cars. The usual comeback from Toyota fans is that although they may
cost more up front, they are also worth more when you sell them.
Perhaps this is true, but I see this as irrelevant. I think the total
life cycle cost for a Toyota is higher than for a comparable. Ford. I
can't prove it, but I believe it to be true for the sorts of vehicle I
buy and my usage of them. Others may have a different point of view.
That is fine. But I get tired of the incessant, and I believe
unwarranted, claims that Toyotas are especially reliable. It seems to
me that Toyota fanatics always have convenient memories. They forget
how horrible older Toyotas were. They trash domestics for having large
numbers of recalls, but dismissed this statistic as irrelevant when
Toyota lead the pack in recalls in 2006. Toyota has always resisted
recalling vehicles and issuing public TSBs, so I never thought the
this particular statistic was meaningful. However after the SO got a
RAV4, I subscribed to the Toyota Information System and was shocked to
see just how many TSBs Toyota actually issued for what was essentially
a new vehicle. Clearly Toyota has exactly the same sort of problems as
domestic manufacturers, they just do a better job of hiding them.

Ed

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Well, since I am not an expert on the automobile market, tell me why.
It seems to me that F150 are tailored mostly for people who buy them
as passenger vehicles that can occasionally haul something and
occasionally tow something. Super Duties are targeted to the real work
truck market.

Ed