Strange no-start on a '94 Accord

#1

I drove home my '94 Accord LX Friday night without any indication of a
problem, but this Saturday morning I could not get it started. All I got
was some klicking noises coming from the hood when I had my ignition key
in the start position. This thing never happened before, so I am totally
clueless. I checked the battery and that seems to be OK. Of course being
Saturday, no shop is open where I could get it towed till Monday. In the
meantime I am stuck as public transportation is pretty scarce in my neck
of the woods. I wonder if anybody has any tips what to check in the
meantime that I could possibly do myself and that might turn out to fix
the problem. One thing I'd like to check is the starter cut relay but I
don't even know where to find it. The Honda service manual that I have
for this car is not very specific about its location as it only vaguely
indicates an under the dashboard place. Any takers?

Thanks,
Bill

#2

Main relay is a strong candidate. For diagnosis help on it
and other possible causes, see

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#startrun

"Bill Forintos" <BF (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote

Quote:

I drove home my '94 Accord LX Friday night without any
indication of a
problem, but this Saturday morning I could not get it
started. All I got
was some klicking noises coming from the hood when I had
my ignition key
in the start position. This thing never happened before,
so I am totally
clueless. I checked the battery and that seems to be OK.
Of course being
Saturday, no shop is open where I could get it towed till
Monday. In the
meantime I am stuck as public transportation is pretty
scarce in my neck
of the woods. I wonder if anybody has any tips what to
check in the
meantime that I could possibly do myself and that might
turn out to fix
the problem. One thing I'd like to check is the starter
cut relay but I
don't even know where to find it. The Honda service manual
that I have
for this car is not very specific about its location as it
only vaguely
indicates an under the dashboard place. Any takers?

Thanks,
Bill

#3

Bill Forintos wrote:

Quote:

I drove home my '94 Accord LX Friday night without any indication of a
problem, but this Saturday morning I could not get it started. All I got
was some klicking noises coming from the hood when I had my ignition key
in the start position. This thing never happened before, so I am totally
clueless. I checked the battery and that seems to be OK. Of course being
Saturday, no shop is open where I could get it towed till Monday. In the
meantime I am stuck as public transportation is pretty scarce in my neck
of the woods. I wonder if anybody has any tips what to check in the
meantime that I could possibly do myself and that might turn out to fix
the problem. One thing I'd like to check is the starter cut relay but I
don't even know where to find it. The Honda service manual that I have
for this car is not very specific about its location as it only vaguely
indicates an under the dashboard place. Any takers?

Thanks,
Bill
-----------------------

Because the click comes from under the hood, it's probably a flat spot
on the solenoid contacts OR your battery terminal(s) are loose and won't
carry any current. For worn out solenoid contacts, you can usually try
clicking it several times and it will go. Here's a good link to
troubleshoot starter no-go's.

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&

For the battery terminals just use a 10mm wrench and loosen them, wiggle
them tighter (downward) and retighten the nuts. If that gets you going,
later, take the time to slip the terminals off completely (black side
first) and clean them up with a teaspoon of baking soda in the bottom of
a glass with 3 ounces of warm water. Use an old toothbrush to clean
around the inside of the cable terminals and then rinse with tap water.
Don't get the soda on the battery. Just use a wire brush to get the
battery posts clean. Smear some vaseline on the posts to keep the
contact surfaces air-tight when you're finished.

'Curly'

#4

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco_ (AT) interbaun (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Because the click comes from under the hood, it's probably a flat spot
on the solenoid contacts OR your battery terminal(s) are loose and
won't carry any current. For worn out solenoid contacts, you can
usually try clicking it several times and it will go. Here's a good
link to troubleshoot starter no-go's.

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&

For the battery terminals just use a 10mm wrench and loosen them,
wiggle them tighter (downward) and retighten the nuts. If that gets
you going, later, take the time to slip the terminals off completely
(black side first) and clean them up with a teaspoon of baking soda in
the bottom of a glass with 3 ounces of warm water. Use an old
toothbrush to clean around the inside of the cable terminals and then
rinse with tap water. Don't get the soda on the battery. Just use a
wire brush to get the battery posts clean. Smear some vaseline on the
posts to keep the contact surfaces air-tight when you're finished.

I've found this link during my Google searches but I'm afraid the
starter is more hidden from view and access in my car than in that '98
CR-V, so a hatchet is out of question. ;-) So I might find some other
tool to do that and an extra person to hold the key in start position
while I am tapping. In the meantime I'm going to check the battery
terminals as suggested, though judging from the intensity of the
headlights, I don't hold high hoped for that being the culprit. I do
think though that it could be something simple to fix, because of that
clicking sound coming from under the hood while I have the key in start
position. So the solenoid is trying to do its job, but the starter,
possibly due to worn brushes, won't catch on. I have a feeling that a
Honda dealer might just decide to replace both and charge me and arm & a
leg for it, while my good old reliable mechanic would fix only what is
really needed, though it might take him longer. Unless I get lucky with
my dabbling with it, the time criticality and the dealer's closeness to
my home (about 3 miles) might just decide the issue for me.

Thanks for your input,

Bill

#5

Bill Forintos wrote:

Quote:

I've found this link during my Google searches but I'm afraid the
starter is more hidden from view and access in my car than in that '98
CR-V, so a hatchet is out of question. ;-) So I might find some other
tool to do that and an extra person to hold the key in start position
while I am tapping. In the meantime I'm going to check the battery
terminals as suggested, though judging from the intensity of the
headlights, I don't hold high hoped for that being the culprit. I do
think though that it could be something simple to fix, because of that
clicking sound coming from under the hood while I have the key in start
position. So the solenoid is trying to do its job, but the starter,
possibly due to worn brushes, won't catch on. I have a feeling that a
Honda dealer might just decide to replace both and charge me and arm & a
leg for it, while my good old reliable mechanic would fix only what is
really needed, though it might take him longer. Unless I get lucky with
my dabbling with it, the time criticality and the dealer's closeness to
my home (about 3 miles) might just decide the issue for me.

Thanks for your input,

Bill
-----------------------

Bill, you'll be a 'Father's Day Hero' if you fix it yourself . . . . You
can do it.

'Curly'

#6

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco_ (AT) interbaun (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Bill, you'll be a 'Father's Day Hero' if you fix it yourself . . . .
You can do it.

Thanks Curly, but I'm not even a father. That reminds me an old Benny
Hill skit where Benny plays some low class slob just waking up with an
ugly looking wife next to him and he greets her with this: "Good
morning, mother of five!" The wife replies: "Good morning, father of
none!". Happy Father's Day!

Bill

#7

On Jun 14, 9:00 pm, "Bill Forintos" <B... (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote:

Quote:

I drove home my '94 Accord LX Friday night without any indication of a
problem, but this Saturday morning I could not get it started. All I got
was some klicking noises coming from the hood when I had my ignition key
in the start position. This thing never happened before, so I am totally
clueless. I checked the battery and that seems to be OK. Of course being
Saturday, no shop is open where I could get it towed till Monday. In the
meantime I am stuck as public transportation is pretty scarce in my neck
of the woods. I wonder if anybody has any tips what to check in the
meantime that I could possibly do myself and that might turn out to fix
the problem. One thing I'd like to check is the starter cut relay but I
don't even know where to find it. The Honda service manual that I have
for this car is not very specific about its location as it only vaguely
indicates an under the dashboard place. Any takers?

Thanks,
Bill

the starter's solenoid does two jobs, getting the pinion engaged and
powering (via copper contacts) the starter motor. what you described
is the classic symptom of a "clicker", caused by worn contacts, loose
connections..etc

in Honda, there seems to be a voltage threshold that get the starter
motor moving, it will either turn vigorously or not at all, kind of
"all or nothing" approach in design. you wont see slow cranking
problems in Hondas (except for seized engines)

i would suggest checking the battery voltage and cleaning battery
posts, and tightening the starter's terminals. but if all fail and the
contacts are indeed worn, just simply mount a remote solenoid instead
of replacing the whole starter, this will save you a bunch of cash...

good luck!!

#8

<bi241 (AT) scn (DOT) org> wrote:

Quote:

the starter's solenoid does two jobs, getting the pinion engaged and
powering (via copper contacts) the starter motor. what you described
is the classic symptom of a "clicker", caused by worn contacts, loose
connections..etc

in Honda, there seems to be a voltage threshold that get the starter
motor moving, it will either turn vigorously or not at all, kind of
"all or nothing" approach in design. you wont see slow cranking
problems in Hondas (except for seized engines)

i would suggest checking the battery voltage and cleaning battery
posts, and tightening the starter's terminals. but if all fail and the
contacts are indeed worn, just simply mount a remote solenoid instead
of replacing the whole starter, this will save you a bunch of cash...

Hm, that's interesting and it sure makes sense, especially after a
talked to my mechanic who upon hearing about the symptoms was almost
swearing that it was due to weak battery and asked me if I tried jump
starting it. When I told him I could not do it as there was nobody
around I could ask to give me a hand with it, he promised to drop by
himself shortly. So we'll see ... Stay tuned.

Thanks for your input,
Bill

#9

<bi241 (AT) scn (DOT) org> wrote:

Quote:

the starter's solenoid does two jobs, getting the pinion engaged and
powering (via copper contacts) the starter motor. what you described
is the classic symptom of a "clicker", caused by worn contacts, loose
connections..etc

in Honda, there seems to be a voltage threshold that get the starter
motor moving, it will either turn vigorously or not at all, kind of
"all or nothing" approach in design. you wont see slow cranking
problems in Hondas (except for seized engines)

i would suggest checking the battery voltage and cleaning battery
posts, and tightening the starter's terminals. but if all fail and the
contacts are indeed worn, just simply mount a remote solenoid instead
of replacing the whole starter, this will save you a bunch of cash...

good luck!!

Well, as it turned out all you guys were right on the money with the bad
battery tip.
When my mechanic arrived and checked the voltage on the posts, it was
way below 12 Volts even though when I measured it on Saturday, at the
beginning of the problem, it was 12.5 Volts. The mechanic gave me a jump
start and the engine came alive as before the trouble. Then I drove to
his shop and had the battery replaced with a new one. Even though the
deal costed me about twice what I would have gotten a new battery for
and installed it myself, I am still happy that it was not a starter
problem.

Though the battery was fairly old and would have needed a replacement
soon anyway, I wonder if the accelerated drain might have been caused by
the faulty Clifford alarm control unit that started acting strange a few
days before the battery went bad. Normally the red alarm indicator lamp
that blinks when the unit is armed and activated is turned off instantly
when I press the remote disarm button. In the last few days it was still
blinking for about 30 secs after the disarm, even though the alarm was
deactivated. This, of course, could have also been due to the low
voltage, I thought, but to be on the safe side, I disconnected the alarm
control unit on Saturday. Now that I got a new battery, I wanted to see
if that faulty blinking would still be present after deactivating the
alarm. Unfortunately it still is present, so I removed the control unit
again as it might drain too much current from the battery. I'll see if I
could get Clifford to replace the unit as it was supposed to have
lifetime guarantee. This is already the second unit because the first
one also burned some circuit. Unfortunately the original installer is
out of business and I'm not sure I could still find the receipt. Shucks!

Bill

#10

bi241 (AT) scn (DOT) org wrote in news:11835260-df09-4c0a-9cd0-bd179b1b8839@
34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

Quote:

in Honda, there seems to be a voltage threshold that get the starter
motor moving, it will either turn vigorously or not at all, kind of
"all or nothing" approach in design. you wont see slow cranking
problems in Hondas (except for seized engines)

You will most certainly have slow cranking in a Honda if the battery is old
and can't hold a full charge.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/