Using a trickle charger - any rules on this?

#11

"y_p_w" <y_p_w (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

So here's the deal. The car is a Honda Civic with a group 51 battery
(Kirkland Signature from Costco if that helps). Every once in a while
the battery is heavily drained because a light (map light or headlamp)
was left on. I do find it annoying that there is no headlight-on
warning chime or auto-off. Sometimes it starts and sometimes it needs
a jump; a portable jump starter always does the trick. The car itself
is driven maybe a few times a month for short distances along with the
occasional long trip.

So I got a simple Schumacher Electric 1 amp, 12 V trickle charger -
the kind with thin wires and light-duty clamps coming out of a wall-
wart. It's labeled as a "manual charger" and the box/directions state
that it's suitable for charging motorcycle and other small batteries,
or for keeping auto batteries warm. I wasn't sure if I could justify
getting anything more expensive like a higher output charger or maybe
even a float charger/maintainer with a charge sensing mechanism.

So I'm wondering how safe this is with a group 51 battery, which is on
the small side for auto batteries? I realize that it's not likely to
fully charge up a depleted battery unless it's on for days at a time.
How safe is a 1 amp charge if uncontrolled like a float charger? I've
heard some concerns that it could potentially overcharge - that maybe .
25 amp is about the limit for safe trickle charging. I've heard other
comments that it's effectively a trickle charge that could safely be
left on a fully charged car battery for days if not indefinitely.

If it's a manual charger then you have to watch it. If it's a sealed
battery then you can't check the specific gravity so it's more difficult to
determine when the battery is fully charged. Personally I like to use a
Smart Charger and periodically use the Desulfate and Equalize features,
especially if one or two cells are a bit lower than the others. If the
Smart Charger shuts off and I don't think it's quite done yet (all cells not
equal) then I'll use a 1/2-1 amp charger for an extended period of time,
checking it regularly. But I don't think, under most circumstances, that
you can properly recharge a car battery with that low of a charge rate if
it's considerably discharged.

#12

Thus spake y_p_w <y_p_w (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> :

Quote:

On Jun 24, 1:54*pm, y_p_w <y_... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
On Jun 24, 11:22*am, "Steve W." <csr684... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime.

My 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX doesn't have a headlamp warning chime, but
it does have a headlamp auto-off feature. *Same goes for some
relatives' Toyota Camry.

I did some research and I think I know what the problem is.
Apparently the driver's side door open switch can get stuck to the
closed position. *I've noticed that the dome light doesn't turn on
when the driver's side door is open and it's switched to the center
(door selected) position. *Apparently the headlamp-on warning or key-
in-ignition warning chimes don't activate until the driver's side door
is sensed open.

http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=833002&page_number=1

As a follow-up, I got home and checked it for this little switch. The
first thing I noticed was that all three other doors worked fine with
the dome light. Next, the little switch felt loose. I first tried
prying it back (bending it) when I then noticed that there was a
little hatch that opened to reveal the screw. The little switch was
actually not connected to the rubber/metal switch cover. I think it
was supposed to be grounded to the body via the screw, but the ground
clips on the switch were always loose (might have even been shaking
around in there never depressed).

So now when the driver's side door is open and the headlights are on,
it gives off a loud whine. Of course it doesn't do anything when the
map lights are on. :-(

Um, did you not turn them on? Turn them off. If you're leaving them
on that much, start looking up when you get out of the car.

And yes, you're battery is very likely shot or nearly so. If this
summer doesn't kill it (right now (1430 CDT) it's 103, probably hit
105), this winter will. Depends on your latitude.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

"Jimmy, I'm sorry your girlfriend turned out
to be a cylon."
-Special Agent Tim McGee, "NCIS"

#13

On Jun 25, 12:39*pm, Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpy... (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com>
wrote:

Quote:

Thus spakey_p_w<y_... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> :

On Jun 24, 1:54*pm,y_p_w<y_... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
On Jun 24, 11:22*am, "Steve W." <csr684... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime.

My 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX doesn't have a headlamp warning chime, but
it does have a headlamp auto-off feature. *Same goes for some
relatives' Toyota Camry.

I did some research and I think I know what the problem is.
Apparently the driver's side door open switch can get stuck to the
closed position. *I've noticed that the dome light doesn't turn on
when the driver's side door is open and it's switched to the center
(door selected) position. *Apparently the headlamp-on warning or key-
in-ignition warning chimes don't activate until the driver's side door
is sensed open.

http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=833002&page_number=1

As a follow-up, I got home and checked it for this little switch. *The
first thing I noticed was that all three other doors worked fine with
the dome light. *Next, the little switch felt loose. *I first tried
prying it back (bending it) when I then noticed that there was a
little hatch that opened to reveal the screw. *The little switch was
actually not connected to the rubber/metal switch cover. *I think it
was supposed to be grounded to the body via the screw, but the ground
clips on the switch were always loose (might have even been shaking
around in there never depressed).

So now when the driver's side door is open and the headlights are on,
it gives off a loud whine. *Of course it doesn't do anything when the
map lights are on. *:-(

Um, did you not turn them on? *Turn them off. *If you're leaving them
on that much, start looking up when you get out of the car.

The map lights are not being left on by myself (I thought I said
that). They're usually left on by someone else looking for stuff
inside the car before exiting. Usually this is after I've already
left the car and/or when I'm not driving the car. While I may not
have left them on, I'm the one who's being asked to rectify the
situation. I would also note that occasionally my car's map lights
have been left on, and after 5+ years the OE battery would barely have
enough to start the car on a cold engine even after being driven 40
miles earlier. I recently got a new battery and hopefully the
mistakes of the past won't be repeated.

The headlamp chime has been fixed. That thing is loud and I doubt I
or anyone else will forget to turn off the headlights now.

Quote:

And yes, you're battery is very likely shot or nearly so. *If this
summer doesn't kill it (right now (1430 CDT) it's 103, probably hit
105), this winter will. *Depends on your latitude.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Right now it's mid-day and
about 72°F. Winter temps might dip as low as the high 30s F. While I
suppose we may need to put up with earthquakes, batteries tend to last
a long time even when they get abused.

#14

~1amp is pretty much a "maintainer". It may charge a batter but will
take a long time. A 2/4/6 or 2/4/10 electronically controlled charger
would be a better choice. That should get you close to the standard C/
10 rate. They typically have 2-3 modes depending on how discharged a
battery is. Then they go into trickle mode after that.

#15

Yeah. At least in the US it's now *required* to have a key chime, not
an "option".

On Jun 24, 11:22*am, "Steve W." <csr684... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime. The other option is to
install a battery buddy. They monitor the draw on the battery and cut
the power before it gets to low to fail starting the vehicle.

--
Steve W.

#16

If you are concerned with 1 amp overcharging the battery then all
one has to do is plug the charger into an automatic timer set for a
few hours a day.

I've done this with NIMH batteries and low amperage dumb chargers.
With this method you can't ruin the batteries and you'll always have a
spare set of fully charged batteries.

#17

On Jun 29, 11:09*pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el... (AT) nastydesigns (DOT) com>
wrote:

Quote:

In article
f2cdb693-bedf-4408-ac24-dbef8296e... (AT) x3g2000yqa (DOT) googlegroups.com>,

*john <johngd... (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Yeah. At least in the US it's now *required* to have a key chime, not
an "option".

Not a key chime--a headlights on chime. *THAT'S what he's missing. *He
leaves the headlights on, and that runs down the battery.

Again - I fixed the door switch and now the headlights on chime is
very, very noticeable. The key chime also now works too; that was
never there either. They both required the door switch to work and
that wasn't functional until I connected it and reseated it in the
door jamb.

#18

On Jun 30, 12:31*am, t... (AT) mucks (DOT) net wrote:

Quote:

If you are concerned with 1 amp overcharging the battery then all
one has to do is plug the charger into an automatic timer set for a
few hours a day.

I've done this with NIMH batteries and low amperage dumb chargers.
With this method you can't ruin the batteries and you'll always have a
spare set of fully charged batteries.

I heard that there might be a small parasitic load from an unpowered
charger. Probably doesn't matter if it's recharged each day.

#19

Quote:

Contrary to what many people believe, completely discharging a lead acid
battery doesn't do much harm. Mostly, *the damage is done when
recharging it. I think you are looking at something like 3 days to
charge a fully discharged battery with 1 amp.

Hard recharges do damage batteries, and long slow charge works
reasonably well on dead ones.
However, heavy discharges do damage batteries. They may survive
several deep discharges with no apparent harm,
but each time a car battery is forced below 10 volts, plate damage
occurs in the form of sulfur dendrites(?)
Some are knocked off or dissolve during normal cycling, but not all,
and this takes up active area on the plates.
HTH
Ben

#20

On Jun 24, 2:22*pm, "Steve W." <csr684... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

y_p_w wrote:
So here's the deal. *The car is a Honda Civic with a group 51 battery
(Kirkland Signature from Costco if that helps). *Every once in a while
the battery is heavily drained because a light (map light or headlamp)
was left on. *I do find it annoying that there is no headlight-on
warning chime or auto-off. *Sometimes it starts and sometimes it needs
a jump; a portable jump starter always does the trick. *The car itself
is driven maybe a few times a month for short distances along with the
occasional long trip.

So I got a simple Schumacher Electric 1 amp, 12 V trickle charger -
the kind with thin wires and light-duty clamps coming out of a wall-
wart. *It's labeled as a "manual charger" and the box/directions state
that it's suitable for charging motorcycle and other small batteries,
or for keeping auto batteries warm. *I wasn't sure if I could justify
getting anything more expensive like a higher output charger or maybe
even a float charger/maintainer with a charge sensing mechanism.

So I'm wondering how safe this is with a group 51 battery, which is on
the small side for auto batteries? *I realize that it's not likely to
fully charge up a depleted battery unless it's on for days at a time.
How safe is a 1 amp charge if uncontrolled like a float charger? *I've
heard some concerns that it could potentially overcharge - that maybe .
25 amp is about the limit for safe trickle charging. *I've heard other
comments that it's effectively a trickle charge that could safely be
left on a fully charged car battery for days if not indefinitely.

A manual charger that size won't do much. However if that battery has
been drawn down that many times it is on borrowed time. I would replace
the battery, then fix the warning chime. Unless that car was made before
about 84-85 it has a lights on warning chime. The other option is to
install a battery buddy. They monitor the draw on the battery and cut
the power before it gets to low to fail starting the vehicle.

--
Steve W.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

92-95 civics don't have a headlight chime. used to be available from
kmart or walmart or such (i got mine from jc whitney) but you can hook
up any kind of 12 volt chime/buzzer between the "hot when lights are
on" and "hot when ignition is on" terminals on the fuse block.