Invisibrarian wrote
I think that the end of Tony isn't the end of the IRL.

In fact, the family is pissed because of his extra stuff.

In their mind, he f**ked up Indianapolis because he went for more, and didn't
stick to the basics.



Have you heard of the FOTA group? In F1?


Perhaps it's time that it went back to the old style, post 1978.


Indy belongs to Indy. 1 race.


It wasn't bad in 1995 or before. Except for the politics.


What goes around, comes around.

Nickname unavailable wrote
Hulman wealth was 1 race a year.


14 years-ago, it wasn't the end. It was just a feature. The CART series was
solid as a rock at the time.


You're implying that losing the Daytona 500 could be the end of NASCAR.

Forgive me, but that's just stupid.

C Story wrote
Those IRL oval races bore me to tears.

I still watch the Indy 500 though.

I'll be watching Watkins on Sunday with bells on.

30 years of being a fan of racing, and the "Kentucky" or the "Iowa" blah blah,
are forgetable.

On the other hand, I only bother with Infineon and Watkins for NASCAR. The
rest put me to sleep, even the Daytona 500.

However, I will go without sleep, stay up, and watch, and listen to the
Daytona 24, or the Lemans 24, no problem.


If it was all about the drivers names? Why would I watch that stuff?


Nice to see you posting here again Chris.


Are you still up in Ottawa?

Berf wrote:
Hulman wealth heavily subsidized the IRL. It provided most of the IRL
operating budget.


CART didn't fail because it didn't run Indy. It failed because the fan
base was so eroded by the split.


Forgive me, but maybe read what you write before you hit the "send"
button. Otherwise, you might post something like what you did and
that's just stupid.


>

Invisibrarian wrote
You're right. My wrong.

CART was indeed magnificent in a period of time from about 1990 to 2005.

Now, it was great before that as well, but those were my favourite years.

I remember being in the UK 20 years ago this month for the French GP and the
British GP. I looked up the CART stats in the newspaper, and they referred
to it as "Formula Indy". In 1987, Enzo Ferrari was pissed at F1 and
threatened to take his team there. There's a photo of the 1987 Ferrari
"Formula Indy" prototype car out there some where.

But, it wasn't until Nigel Mansell, one of my heroes, won the DWC and went
racing in "Formula Indy" the next year, until things took off for the series
over there and it stuck. I kept telling them in 1989 how fantastic a series
it was, but I was met with blank stares. 1 mile ovals, Super Speedways,
Street Tracks and road courses like Road America and Mid Ohio.

Then, just after Mansell got into it, he was joined by a couple of F1 back
markers like Gugelmin and so-on. By the mid-1990's, Nige had left, but Tracy
had matured, Greg Moore was there, later on there was Dario and a whole bunch
of "young lions" who had such potential.

Those were really great times for open wheel racing. In 1995, I was at the
Michigan race and the place had at least 90,000 fans. Toronto, Vancouver and
most of the others were well attended. By the bitter end, Michigan had about
15,000 for the IRL and CART years after.

In the early to mid 1990's, CART was taking on NASCAR and was robust.

The downfall all started in '96 with "The Split"

TGFTG

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 14:58:03 -0400, Berf <berf1 (AT) live (DOT) ca> wrote:


The split was 1979.

As a follower of Championship racing from the early 1960s (as well as
an avid reader of its history from the beginning), I found the term
"Formula Indy" to be appalling. It meant that Champ Car racing was
just another series - like Formula 1, Formula 2, Formual Vee, Formula
Ford, etc. But that was the archtecture that the founders of CART
seemed to like.

By the early 90s there were only 5 oval races left in a series that
had built itself on ovals.

During the war years, one of CART's succession of CEOs said that he'd
like nothing better than for CART to be a feeder series to F1. I was
really happy that by then CART was no longer a factor in Indy Car
racing.

Ken Plotkin

Berf wrote:

Same here .. not that I've watched one in ages ..

I don't .. totally forgot it was on this year.


Thanks! Who's this? I'm ashamed to say I've forgotten many of the
gang I corresponded with back in the day.

Depends on what you mean by 'up' ..

Ken Plotkin wrote:

Not true ...

For instance, in 1990, there were seven

Phoenix, Indy, Milwaukee, Meadowlands, Michigan, and 2XNazareth

1991 had six : Phoenix, Indy, Milwaukee, Meadowlands, Michigan, and
Nazareth

1992 again had six : Phoenix, Indy, Milwaukee, New Hampshire, Michigan,
and Nazareth

Furthermore, at the time the series had around 15 - 16 races, so fully
a third of the series was ovals .. a third on road courses and a third
on street courses.

This, quite frankly is what made CART great, and the most challenging
series in the world.

Whatever the series was in the mid 90s, it was built by the founders
of CART, not by USAC or IMS. Except for Indianapolis, USAC
championship racing was dying in the mid 70s. Remember desperate
stuff like running F5000 cars? If SCCA Pro Racing is your savior,
you're hurtin'.

Back to reality.

CART had 6 oval races in 1995.

In 1996, Homestead, the US 500 (second MIS date), and Rio replaced
Phoenix, Loudon, and Indy. Milwaukee, Nazareth, and the original MIS
date were the carryovers. (Presumably at least eight oval races in
CART w/o the IRL.)

Aside from the southeast stock car ovals, how many suitable ovals did
CART pass up in 1995? You seem to be implying that it was CART's
obligation to build tracks.

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:20:23 -0700 (PDT), Nickname unavailable
<scottrevision (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

[snip]
It was CART's choice to stop doing two races a year at some ovals.

By '95 CART was trying to increase ovals - they saw the merit in TG's
griping about that. But they were stuck with their policy. And the
NASCAR ovals were just not suitable for CART's cars. I remember CART
being upset when TMS built high banks, since they were hoping for
another oval.

IRL designed their cars to be able to run the NASCAR ovals. More
traditional than you'd think - it led to racing comparable to the high
banked board tracks of the 20s. They were also happy to visit the
same track twice a season.

Ken Plotkin