On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:51:48 -0700 (PDT), sterling
<sterlingla (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote:

The vision is pretty much gone. It was to preserve the oval track
tradition. But TG stepped down from running things several years ago,
and has not held a tight leash on his hired hands. His commercial
division chief thinks half road/street races is great, and want to go
to Brazil and China.

It's come full circle. Street course "events". Oval races with no
passing.

It will be interesting to see how things evolve with beancounters in
charge of the Speedway and the IRL.

Thinking back to 1978/1979, the CART split came about because the team
owners didn't like the way things were being run. IRL's drift back to
CARTism is, IMHO, driven by the car owners, who are mostly the CART
crowd. Their support for TG is interesting, and now TG is one of
them. I wonder if, in a few years, he might be the Roger Penske/Pat
Patrick of a breakaway series to take control away from IMS?

[snip]
Don't forget Paul Tracy coming back. All we need now is for Michael
Andretti to come out of retirement, and for the two of them to crash
into each other.

Ken Plotkin

What has happened with the "evolution' of the IRL is that
Tony took things over and gradually discovered everything
that the CART owners found out when they started running
the series in 1979.

Street races appeal to sponsors who enjoy several days
of their signage/message out for all to see. They are
typically in downtown areas where lots of people will
see same. Oval race events typically draw a crowd that shows up
for the race and then leaves.

Going overseas brings in international sponsors (translation: money).

Ride-buying also brings in capital - enough for some teams to
be able to field two drivers (the "buyer" and a driver of choice).
Ask IRL charter member and enthusiast A. J. Foyt about that.

Before one laments this money-ruling-the-aesthetic
"destroying" the IRL's oval-only, American drivers & venues
charter,
remember that money was what brought the most visible
CART teams over to the IRL. Honda and Toyota Yen brought
Rahal, Andretti and Ganassi to the IRL's racing ideals. Never
once heard any of those team owners speak of a conversion
to the IRL's philosophy. All they mentioned was (in so many
words), an "offer they couldn't refuse." Roger Penske
only said his sponsor wanted him to be at Indy.

I was at a big Honda (corporate) event years ago and talked to a top
racing exec there. I said "We miss you over in CART" and
he said, "Yeah, we had to go with the wrong series. Not
our choice. Japan tells us what to do. All we can do is
hope they can make something out of the IRL."

The IRL had many years to succeed (and you can argue,
IS succeeding as it is still standing), but it seems that it
is all the things "CART" that are its biggest successes,

Since that already existed in 1995 with considerably more
momentum, interest, etc., I'd sum up the IRL
experiment as a costly failure for American open
wheel racing racing.

-Sterling






On Jul 11, 8:36*am, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:

On Jul 10, 4:24*pm, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:
Yes, I know and so does everyone here in RASI. You have a selective
memory, that's very convenient for you. It fits in well with your
unending equiviocations. So with all your bullshit and complete
inanity. I'll take that as confirmation that the IRL Doomsday Clock
has nearly reached midnight.

On Jul 8, 4:06*pm, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:
By that flawed logic was he also 'used to the big time' when he did
the catch fence blasting bone crushing accident at the same track?

And you know all this to a certainty? What a pant load of
speculation, conjecture, innuendo and straight bullshit. Thanks for
playing.

On Jul 11, 8:36*am, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:
The vision that never was is pretty much gone? Bwhahahahahahaha!

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:50:22 -0700 (PDT), "Powell's Colon"
<powellscolon (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:


Ummm... CART's snit over the banking at TMS, and saying that they
could not run there because of it, was a big news item. Take a memory
pill.

Ken Plotkin

On Jul 11, 2:32*pm, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:

Umm, no disputing that, Poindexter. It's the rest of your bullshit
and IIRC inanity, Not only do you not IIRC accurately, you manufacture
your own history and facts out of whole cloth,

Take an integrity pill.

Ken Plotkin wrote
Who, who is a fan of CART, will ever forget that day?

I was over at a friends house and we had read of some reported issues with
tunnel vision, and dizziness. Blah, blah. Just the normal stuff you expect
to hear about when you read about racing.

Of course the race was called off at the last minute. After a Friday and
Saturday set of runs. But CART suing TMS was stupid because a good series
would have anticipated that by having testing sessions and it apparently,
wasn't done.

Of course, the situation at the 2005 USGP was totally off the wall when
Michelin shod cars were having their issues and the Bridgestone shod cars were
not. That's because the USGP track at Indianapolis is like Montreal, you
just can't easily book a testing session for those circumstances.

CART could have done that at TMS. Especially when at least somebody who is
an engineer in the game should have taken a look at the banking and would have
red flagged it for further scrutiny.


I was just surprised that TMS was a surprise to them.

Ken Plotkin wrote
If it was all about ovals, I would fall asleep. Or tape it so I could get to
the last few laps.

That's one of the reasons why I wasn't all that big on the IRL. Even when
the aeros were so cut that the cars were racing in packs and finishing within
milliseconds of each other.

If you want strategy, in my opinion. I give you the last two years of the
Penske RS7 Porches in the P2 class versus the Audi R8 and R10 cars.

Sure, it's not open wheel. But Penske's genius and ability to strategize was
so far over the top that they managed to do a magnificent job against the all
powerful Audi squad. And that's road and street racing.

Every minute of some of those races was precious, a thrill to watch and to
anticipate. And, occasionally, there would be a "cut throat finish", where
they would be within seconds of each other at the chequered flag.

But countless passes and pack racing on ovals just doesn't turn my crank,
compared to that stuff.

Powell's Colon wrote

For two reasons. (and not what you would expect).

They have deep pockets and have resurrected the race in Toronto, and I was
there today and the turn out isn't what it used to be. But this is a
recession and people don't have the time, nor the money. But their deep
pockets will keep that one alive until it gets back to the glory times when
the place was packed to the tits on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

And the other one? A neighbourhood friend from Scarborough is doing well for
their racing effort. I remember yaking with him back in '81 when he was with
Al Holbert. So, he's been around and I guess that AGR signs his paycheque.