Let's see if I have this right...

One group apparently believes they had the Indy 500 stolen from them
following '95 and they want it back. The other apparently believes that
what was done after '95 was a step in the right direction and wants
that process to continue.

So why do these two groups of people actually hate EACH OTHER? It seems
like two reasonable reactions to what occurred, so why is this all so
personal?

I can see a current CCWS fan wanting the IRL to fail so that it can put
things basically back the way they were and I can see a current IRL fan
wanting CCWS to fail so that those drivers/sites/resources, etc. will
be part of the Indy 500 again as well as other IRL events.

But when open wheel is struggling so much, how does blowing all of this
energy pointing fingers at each other add anything to the sport in
general?

It seems that in order for a sport to grow, it needs to focus all
energy (including its core fan base) on hyping its events/upcoming
season and there appears to be almost none of that in open wheel from
what I can see.

Look at the current off season...How much 'hot stove' talk is there
about open wheel in the larger sporting world? I see almost nothing.
Almost all of the talk here is the pro-IRL people fighting with the
pro-CCWS people. How does that advance anything?

I trust there are a few other quiet folks out here who actually don't
mind the diversity of having two series with their own storylines and
competition - providing in essence double the number of events. I'd be
excited to see it come together - but only in a pro-growth move and not
driven by the desperation by one or the other side. Neither series
seems strong enough to handle somebody else's desperation.

Am I alone on this list or must you pick a side in order to be welcome?

me

I suggest that you study history a little more carefully before you post
such a message.

Pay particular attention to the attacks by the IRL against Champ Car.
Trying to buy its resources in an effort to shut them down. Trying to
buy exclusives on established Champ Car venues.

Or just to throw some real facts into the picture, check the attendance
at races other than the Indy 500 just to see if the IRL club is real.
Or is it just a plastic creation founded for the single purpose of
wrecking Champ Car for the sole benefit of Tony George.

Do a little research on the founding ideals of the IRL. See how that
maps to the current racing.

If the IRL was founded to save open wheel from the clutches of a failing
racing plan, why does the current IRL follow the same competition plan
of Champ Car and look so much like Champ Car?

As was recently stated, the IRL was never about the racing.



Or are you maybe just another troll?

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:02:27 -0600, Cal Vanize wrote:
More likely just one of the old trolls.

Bob

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:02:27 -0600, Cal Vanize
<dont.even.spam.me (AT) myspam (DOT) org> wrote:


So that's a "yes." Along with a pitch for which side to pick.

On Jan 20, 12:09*pm, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:
I find it very interesting that a post which makes no claim for support
for either side is met with nothing but attacks from the ccws side.
Typical for this group. If the poster does not support ccws view he is
attacked personally.

Not only is picking a side a requirement Purchasing from the sponsors is
a requirement because without their support......

So... I shop a WAlmart, Bought a Ford, Buy Brigstone tires, eat an
McDonalds, I have a Visa card Ship Via UPS and so on

I also go to the RAce here to show my support. And I am sure to watch
every race on TV. Even though the wife bitches about it.

That what it is to be a fan

And Fans pick sides.

Cal;

I have no argument concerning your view of the facts. I just find it
hard to believe that it seems the most passionate content here isn't
related to 'intra-Series' rivalries even after more than 10 years. Both
series need a lot of that to grow. It just seems like the fan base is
stuck in this time warp and can't move ahead and it is really hurting
the sport.

Maybe nobody else feels that way.

For example, college football fans at Auburn and Alabama buy tickets,
buy shirts, give money and tune into radio and TV shows about their
schools in large part because of the rivaly between the two of them.
But if their fans all decided instead that they were going to stop
doing those things so they could waste attention bash the NFL in the
name of college football, their rivalry would be greatly diminished.

me

Cal Vanize wrote:

Maple1;

I fully agree that fans need to pick sides - but wouldn't both series
benefit more if the core fan base focused on building the rivalries
within that series?

Supporting the sponsors tied to a series seems fine, but wouldn't the
series grow if the followers of each ignored the other and focused on
growing what they cared about?


Maple1 wrote:

<u8241 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote



Only thing people need to get right is that racing wheel to wheel at
over 200mph on an oval is real racing and that is what it is all about.
Real men with real guts. I am a fan of road/street racing (F1 and IRL) but
the IRL has the best RACING in the World by far.

ChampCar is trying to kill they sport. They should do what is right and
give themselves to the IRL. The IRL will take them back. The IRL wants
them back. But they need to come back to the IRL, not the other way around.

<u8241 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

You must pick a side. The IRL group consists of Americans. The alphabet
soup group consists of snooty Americans and anti-Americans. There is no
middle ground. Either you are for America or against America.