Chewed up flywheel

#21

Jo Baggs wrote:

Quote:

"Jo Baggs" <Jo (AT) says (DOT) shaddup> wrote in message
news:LbLCm.8306$f64.6621 (AT) newsfe13 (DOT) iad...
My friend's 1975 Jeep CJ-5 with an unknown 8 Cyl Engine (not stock i.e.
304).
The starter starting making the horrible fingernail on the chalkboard
sound. So we took the starter off and the edge of the flywheel is ate up
pretty bad (not all the way around, only in a spot about 4" long along
the
gear). So can I get the flywheel fixed, or do I need a new one?

Also, not knowing the size of the flywheel, are their many different
types? Or do Jeeps typically come with a 10" or 12" flywheel? From what
I can tell, it looks the original bellhousing (ironduke?).

Thanks.

Ok, we'll drop the tranny this weekend. Is it easier to remove the
tranny, transfer case, and bell housing as one unit i.e. only remove the
bell
housing bolts and drop the whole thing. Or, do I need to unbolt the
tranny from the bell housing, and then take off the bell housing?

For things like this, I'm a fan of Harbor Freight. They had a floor jack
with a tranny cradle that replaces the lift plate cheap enough it wasn't
worth the hassle. The cradle gives you a lot more stability and comes with
chains to keep it in place while you maneuver it out. You'll find the
hardest part will be disconnecting the transfer case linkages and getting
it off before backing the tranny out (you can remove them as a unit but
unless you have some really tall jack stands or a lift it's pretty awkward
to manage, not mention heavy). The last challenge will be finding and
reaching the two male Torx bolts at the top of the bellhousing ;-).

--
Will Honea

#22

"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote

Quote:

Jeff Strickland wrote:

Are you sure?!

I've never ever heard that theory -- the engine will stop in the same
place. It sounds like an absurdly implausible theory to me.

It is very odd Jeff, but it does happen that way. The teeth will always
be torn up in certain places with the ones between like new.

As mentioned, usually 180 off too....

It can't be possible for anything other than the luck-of-the-draw that the
engine tends to stop in the same place. Just because an entirely random
event repeats itself does not mean it's not random. The location that the
engine stops at is nothing but the very definition of "random event."

#23

Jeff Strickland wrote:

Quote:

"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:6sKDm.1465$8e5.1359 (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Are you sure?!

I've never ever heard that theory -- the engine will stop in the same
place. It sounds like an absurdly implausible theory to me.
It is very odd Jeff, but it does happen that way. The teeth will always
be torn up in certain places with the ones between like new.

As mentioned, usually 180 off too....

It can't be possible for anything other than the luck-of-the-draw that the
engine tends to stop in the same place. Just because an entirely random
event repeats itself does not mean it's not random. The location that the
engine stops at is nothing but the very definition of "random event."

Maybe, but think old iron and maybe one cylinder with more compression
than the rest and it gets more likely.

I see it a lot when changing starters and ring gears on old stuff.

Mike

#24

Ditto.

"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote

Quote:

Maybe, but think old iron and maybe one cylinder with more compression
than the rest and it gets more likely.

I see it a lot when changing starters and ring gears on old stuff.

Mike

#25

V8 engine has four compression "strokes" per revolution with points of
least force are half way between each of these. If you have ever rolled
an engine over by hand you will know how hard it is to take each piston
over top dead center of it's compression stroke. If the engine stops
near the peaks of any of these compression cycles it is going to
continue to roll over or roll back to one of the lower force points of
rotation between the TDC angles. All things being equal the odds of
stopping at one particular point in rotation would be only 2 in 8 and
you would expect to see wear zones every 90 degrees, but things are
never equal. A new engine I would expect to be more random with a bias
toward stopping just before it's strongest cylinder, but an older one
will definitly get set in it's ways.

Quote:

It can't be possible for anything other than the luck-of-the-draw that the
engine tends to stop in the same place. Just because an entirely random
event repeats itself does not mean it's not random. The location that the
engine stops at is nothing but the very definition of "random event."

#26

"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote

Quote:

Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:6sKDm.1465$8e5.1359 (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Are you sure?!

I've never ever heard that theory -- the engine will stop in the same
place. It sounds like an absurdly implausible theory to me.
It is very odd Jeff, but it does happen that way. The teeth will always
be torn up in certain places with the ones between like new.

As mentioned, usually 180 off too....

It can't be possible for anything other than the luck-of-the-draw that
the engine tends to stop in the same place. Just because an entirely
random event repeats itself does not mean it's not random. The location
that the engine stops at is nothing but the very definition of "random
event."

Maybe, but think old iron and maybe one cylinder with more compression
than the rest and it gets more likely.

I see it a lot when changing starters and ring gears on old stuff.

Mike

Mike,
I hope you're feeling well. Question: Is it possible to flip the ring gear
around to the good side and still use the same ring gear? Also, is
flipping/replacing the ring gear better suited for a machine shop, or can I
do this myself...and how?

Thanks Mike.

#27

Technically, the randomness would be 1 in 4, which is pretty near the same
as 2 in 8.

But still, killing the spark instantly gives the engine no reason to spin,
and all other things being equal, it should stop instantly. If it dies not
stop instantly, there is a malfunction of one sort or another.

There is no mechanical reason for your assertion of a predictable stopping
location of the flywheel.

"jeff" <jalowe44.invalid (AT) hotmail (DOT) com.invalid> wrote

Quote:

V8 engine has four compression "strokes" per revolution with points of
least force are half way between each of these. If you have ever rolled an
engine over by hand you will know how hard it is to take each piston over
top dead center of it's compression stroke. If the engine stops near the
peaks of any of these compression cycles it is going to continue to roll
over or roll back to one of the lower force points of rotation between the
TDC angles. All things being equal the odds of stopping at one particular
point in rotation would be only 2 in 8 and you would expect to see wear
zones every 90 degrees, but things are never equal. A new engine I would
expect to be more random with a bias toward stopping just before it's
strongest cylinder, but an older one will definitly get set in it's ways.

It can't be possible for anything other than the luck-of-the-draw that
the engine tends to stop in the same place. Just because an entirely
random event repeats itself does not mean it's not random. The location
that the engine stops at is nothing but the very definition of "random
event."

#28

"Jo Baggs" <Jo (AT) says (DOT) shaddup> wrote

Quote:

"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:EGMDm.2120$OT7.1965 (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Mike Romain" <romainm (AT) nospam (DOT) eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:6sKDm.1465$8e5.1359 (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Are you sure?!

I've never ever heard that theory -- the engine will stop in the same
place. It sounds like an absurdly implausible theory to me.
It is very odd Jeff, but it does happen that way. The teeth will
always be torn up in certain places with the ones between like new.

As mentioned, usually 180 off too....

It can't be possible for anything other than the luck-of-the-draw that
the engine tends to stop in the same place. Just because an entirely
random event repeats itself does not mean it's not random. The location
that the engine stops at is nothing but the very definition of "random
event."

Maybe, but think old iron and maybe one cylinder with more compression
than the rest and it gets more likely.

I see it a lot when changing starters and ring gears on old stuff.

Mike

Mike,
I hope you're feeling well. Question: Is it possible to flip the ring
gear around to the good side and still use the same ring gear? Also, is
flipping/replacing the ring gear better suited for a machine shop, or can
I do this myself...and how?

Thanks Mike.

The gear on the flywheel probably can't be replaced, that is, the flywheel
has to be replaced in order to replace the gear.

There are a few cases where the gear can be removed from the flywheel, but
as a practical matter, the gear and the flywheel are the same thing.

If the gear is a separate part, it cannot be reversed.

The gear teeth are cut to be rounded on the side facing the starter, and the
side facing the block is cut at 90 degrees. I'm not sure if the teeth are
angled (helical) or not, but my weak memory is not. But one edge is rounded
and the other is not.

#29

Flywheels don't stop instantly.
It's the nature of the beasts.

--
Bob Noble
http://www.sonic.net/bnoble
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Technically, the randomness would be 1 in 4, which is pretty near the same
as 2 in 8.

But still, killing the spark instantly gives the engine no reason to spin,
and all other things being equal, it should stop instantly. If it dies not
stop instantly, there is a malfunction of one sort or another.

There is no mechanical reason for your assertion of a predictable stopping
location of the flywheel.

#30

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Technically, the randomness would be 1 in 4, which is pretty near the same
as 2 in 8.

But still, killing the spark instantly gives the engine no reason to spin,
and all other things being equal, it should stop instantly. If it dies not
stop instantly, there is a malfunction of one sort or another.

There is no mechanical reason for your assertion of a predictable stopping
location of the flywheel.

It's called inertia, Jeff. Once you cut off the spark the motor will wind
down, not stop instantly...unless of course you're running 14 to 1
compression or something like that.
--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC(P) 'Mistress Pearl'
'87 FLTC 'Fugly'
'61 F-100
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM