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Re: 96 Cherokee Won't Start
Jeep and Willys Vehicles Discussions on Jeep and Willys vehicles. (rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys)
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#1
 
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Re: 96 Cherokee Won't Start -
10-19-2009
, 12:43 PM
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Greetings, My 1996 Cherokee Country died suddenly yesterday and now won't even turn over. I've replaced the fusible link to the power control center and checked the starter relay which powers the starter perfectly. But it still won't start. There is no power to the coil when in the on position. Is there a fuse or another fusible link I'm overlooking? All fuses I've checked seem in great shape. It's a 2wd inline 6 and the keyed ignition switch seems to function correctly. Thanks. |
the hood)...
By "turn over" do you mean crank or the engine just wont turn at all.
If the engine won't turn at all then the problem can be the solinoid
at the starter motor.
http://www.type2.com/bartnik/starter.htm
http://www.aa1car.com/library/1999/cm119948.htm
If you don't want to mess with it, just disconnect the battery,
remove the wires from the starter, drop the starter, and take
it to PepBoys/Canadian Tire/etc and they can bench test it for you.
....
If by "turn over" you mean it cranks but does not start
then keep reading.
pull the codes.
http://www.wjjeeps.com/faultcodes.htm
http://www.revbeergoggles.com/engine_codes.html
I'm thinking that on the 96 they didn't allow codes to be
pulled other than with the scantool. Try anway.
There is a relay (ASD) that powers the coil.
http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#enginefuses
You can swap it with the AC relay for testing.
However, the jeep will prevent the engine from starting if it's missing
any critical sensors. CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) is one of the
most common no-start problems.
http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#CPSdetails
Look on the side of your engine by the dipstic for a small connector
that runs down to the transmission. This is the CPS harness. Unplug
and replug that connection, then try starting again.
--
DougW
#2
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Added ramj+w Tamiami wrote: Greetings, My 1996 Cherokee Country died suddenly yesterday and now won't even turn over. I've replaced the fusible link to the power control center and checked the starter relay which powers the starter perfectly. But it still won't start. There is no power to the coil when in the on position. Is there a fuse or another fusible link I'm overlooking? All fuses I've checked seem in great shape. It's a 2wd inline 6 and the keyed ignition switch seems to function correctly. Thanks. Apart from pulling and checking every fuse in the power center (under the hood)... By "turn over" do you mean crank or the engine just wont turn at all. If the engine won't turn at all then the problem can be the solinoid at the starter motor. http://www.type2.com/bartnik/starter.htm http://www.aa1car.com/library/1999/cm119948.htm If you don't want to mess with it, just disconnect the battery, remove the wires from the starter, drop the starter, and take it to PepBoys/Canadian Tire/etc and they can bench test it for you. ... If by "turn over" you mean it cranks but does not start then keep reading. pull the codes. http://www.wjjeeps.com/faultcodes.htm http://www.revbeergoggles.com/engine_codes.html I'm thinking that on the 96 they didn't allow codes to be pulled other than with the scantool. Try anway. There is a relay (ASD) that powers the coil. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#enginefuses You can swap it with the AC relay for testing. However, the jeep will prevent the engine from starting if it's missing any critical sensors. CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) is one of the most common no-start problems. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#CPSdetails Look on the side of your engine by the dipstic for a small connector that runs down to the transmission. This is the CPS harness. Unplug and replug that connection, then try starting again. |
from the ignition switch. When testing the starter with the starter
relay, the starter works just fine in turning over the motor. I will
try swapping the relays to check the coil. When using the key to try
and start there is nothing at all. It seems that the crank position
sensor would not block the circuit to the starter motor while in the
cranking ignition switch position. The darn thing just seems dead from
the key. I'm about to crawl under and check the neutral safety switch
on the side of the tranny for loose connections, but after that I'm at a
loss.
Thanks again.
#3
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Thanks Doug. The engine will not turn over at all when trying to start from the ignition switch. When testing the starter with the starter relay, the starter works just fine in turning over the motor. I will try swapping the relays to check the coil. When using the key to try and start there is nothing at all. It seems that the crank position sensor would not block the circuit to the starter motor while in the cranking ignition switch position. The darn thing just seems dead from the key. I'm about to crawl under and check the neutral safety switch on the side of the tranny for loose connections, but after that I'm at a loss. |
I'm reading from the 1998 ZJ service book (likely close)
The engine starter relay (next to the ASD relay) is also
something to look at.
Basically it closes when the NSS closes and that is responsible
for providing 12V to the solinoid to crank the engine.
Here is an extract, doubt anything changed.
http://www.revbeergoggles.com/temp/1998-zj-starter.jpg
--
DougW
#4
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Tamiami wrote: Thanks Doug. The engine will not turn over at all when trying to start from the ignition switch. When testing the starter with the starter relay, the starter works just fine in turning over the motor. I will try swapping the relays to check the coil. When using the key to try and start there is nothing at all. It seems that the crank position sensor would not block the circuit to the starter motor while in the cranking ignition switch position. The darn thing just seems dead from the key. I'm about to crawl under and check the neutral safety switch on the side of the tranny for loose connections, but after that I'm at a loss. The NSS will definitly do that. Try starting it in N vs Park. I'm reading from the 1998 ZJ service book (likely close) The engine starter relay (next to the ASD relay) is also something to look at. Basically it closes when the NSS closes and that is responsible for providing 12V to the solinoid to crank the engine. Here is an extract, doubt anything changed. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/temp/1998-zj-starter.jpg |
connector pin holds the +12V?
#5
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DougW wrote: Tamiami wrote: Thanks Doug. The engine will not turn over at all when trying to start from the ignition switch. When testing the starter with the starter relay, the starter works just fine in turning over the motor. I will try swapping the relays to check the coil. When using the key to try and start there is nothing at all. It seems that the crank position sensor would not block the circuit to the starter motor while in the cranking ignition switch position. The darn thing just seems dead from the key. I'm about to crawl under and check the neutral safety switch on the side of the tranny for loose connections, but after that I'm at a loss. The NSS will definitly do that. Try starting it in N vs Park. I'm reading from the 1998 ZJ service book (likely close) The engine starter relay (next to the ASD relay) is also something to look at. Basically it closes when the NSS closes and that is responsible for providing 12V to the solinoid to crank the engine. Here is an extract, doubt anything changed. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/temp/1998-zj-starter.jpg Thanks again Doug. You wouldn't happen to know easily which NSS connector pin holds the +12V? |
unless the key is in the start position.
The switch just throws a ground when it's in N and P
The wire running to that pin should be a 20 Gauge Black
wire with a white stripe.
If that turns out to be the problem then http://jeepin.com/features/nss/
shows how to clean/rebuild it.
First thing to do is check the relay to make sure it's getting
12V when you turn the key to start.
Looking into the relay socket.
29
__
26 | __ | 30
28
27|
26 will go 12V when the ignition switch is in run or start
if it doesn't then check the fuse (F12) in the same area
It's a 40 amp fuse.
28 shouldh have 12V from it (also from fuse 12)
When the relay energizes pins 29 and 28 are connected through the relay.
That gives 12V to the solinoid by the starter and will cause the engine to crank.
--
DougW
#6
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Tamiami wrote: DougW wrote: Tamiami wrote: Thanks Doug. The engine will not turn over at all when trying to start from the ignition switch. When testing the starter with the starter relay, the starter works just fine in turning over the motor. I will try swapping the relays to check the coil. When using the key to try and start there is nothing at all. It seems that the crank position sensor would not block the circuit to the starter motor while in the cranking ignition switch position. The darn thing just seems dead from the key. I'm about to crawl under and check the neutral safety switch on the side of the tranny for loose connections, but after that I'm at a loss. The NSS will definitly do that. Try starting it in N vs Park. I'm reading from the 1998 ZJ service book (likely close) The engine starter relay (next to the ASD relay) is also something to look at. Basically it closes when the NSS closes and that is responsible for providing 12V to the solinoid to crank the engine. Here is an extract, doubt anything changed. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/temp/1998-zj-starter.jpg Thanks again Doug. You wouldn't happen to know easily which NSS connector pin holds the +12V? It's a ground system so you won't see 12V unless the key is in the start position. The switch just throws a ground when it's in N and P The wire running to that pin should be a 20 Gauge Black wire with a white stripe. If that turns out to be the problem then http://jeepin.com/features/nss/ shows how to clean/rebuild it. First thing to do is check the relay to make sure it's getting 12V when you turn the key to start. Looking into the relay socket. 29 __ 26 | __ | 30 28 27| 26 will go 12V when the ignition switch is in run or start if it doesn't then check the fuse (F12) in the same area It's a 40 amp fuse. 28 shouldh have 12V from it (also from fuse 12) When the relay energizes pins 29 and 28 are connected through the relay. That gives 12V to the solinoid by the starter and will cause the engine to crank. |
like.
#7
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DougW wrote: Added ramj+w Tamiami wrote: Greetings, My 1996 Cherokee Country died suddenly yesterday and now won't even turn over. I've replaced the fusible link to the power control center and checked the starter relay which powers the starter perfectly. But it still won't start. There is no power to the coil when in the on position. Is there a fuse or another fusible link I'm overlooking? All fuses I've checked seem in great shape. It's a 2wd inline 6 and the keyed ignition switch seems to function correctly. Thanks. Apart from pulling and checking every fuse in the power center (under the hood)... By "turn over" do you mean crank or the engine just wont turn at all. If the engine won't turn at all then the problem can be the solinoid at the starter motor. http://www.type2.com/bartnik/starter.htm http://www.aa1car.com/library/1999/cm119948.htm If you don't want to mess with it, just disconnect the battery, remove the wires from the starter, drop the starter, and take it to PepBoys/Canadian Tire/etc and they can bench test it for you. ... If by "turn over" you mean it cranks but does not start then keep reading. pull the codes. http://www.wjjeeps.com/faultcodes.htm http://www.revbeergoggles.com/engine_codes.html I'm thinking that on the 96 they didn't allow codes to be pulled other than with the scantool. Try anway. There is a relay (ASD) that powers the coil. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#enginefuses You can swap it with the AC relay for testing. However, the jeep will prevent the engine from starting if it's missing any critical sensors. CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) is one of the most common no-start problems. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#CPSdetails Look on the side of your engine by the dipstic for a small connector that runs down to the transmission. This is the CPS harness. Unplug and replug that connection, then try starting again. Thanks Doug. The engine will not turn over at all when trying to start from the ignition switch. When testing the starter with the starter relay, the starter works just fine in turning over the motor. I will try swapping the relays to check the coil. When using the key to try and start there is nothing at all. It seems that the crank position sensor would not block the circuit to the starter motor while in the cranking ignition switch position. The darn thing just seems dead from the key. I'm about to crawl under and check the neutral safety switch on the side of the tranny for loose connections, but after that I'm at a loss. Thanks again. |
If you turn the key and nothing happens, the problem can be the ignition
switch itself OR the Neutral Safety Switch. The Crank Sensor would allow the
motor to crank, but it would not start and there would be a Check Engine
light and code.
The Ignition Switch is two parts, the lockset (part you put the key into)
and its linkage, and the Switch that is connected to the lockset via
linkage. If the key has a different feel than you are accustomed to, then
the linkage or the switch has failed. I had an ignition linkage that broke
at the part that allows the steering to tilt. I was able to start my truck,
but I could not turn it off. (It was a Bronco, so your mileage may vary.) I
had the linkage in my CJ5 break somewhere, but I can't recall the symptom.
The swtich has contacts that fail.
I'm not sure if the NSS will generate an OBD II code, but for certain the
ignition switch and linkage will not generate one.
#8
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Looks like it's going off until tomorrow. Will keep you posted if you'd like. |
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