Now I remember back when ordinary folks didn't have torque wrenches, air
compressors and impact wrenches at home. And some service stations
didn't either. With lug nuts, you used a "star" wrench and the important
thing was that the lug nuts all be tightened about equally. Put yer back
into it a little bit on that final turn. And the common knowledge at that
time was that lug nuts (and studs) should be clean and dry, no lube. It
was also common knowledge back then that a person should check their lug
nuts occasionally.

So I wonder if it's all that important to have the exact (or correct, per
factory) torque on lug nuts? They need to be equal, so as to not cause
warping, and they need to be tight enough to hold the wheel secure and not
allow it to come off. What more does a guy need?

Now-a-days many more people are using alloy wheels, which are probably more
elastic (correct term?) than ordinary stamped steel wheels and so need a
more precise tightening than the steel wheels. But just how much more
precise does it need to be?

Where I worked, we serviced our own trucks. The tire shop had one of
those big old manly-man impact wrenches for putting the wheels back on the
trucks. They used the same wrench for alloy and steel wheels. Never did
see a torque wrench laying about. Never heard of a wheel coming off.
Never heard of a warped rotor or drum.

I recently got a set of tires at Costco. The tire shop was very neat and
spotless. The policy at the shop was that the final tightening was by a
more senior employee with a torque wrench. Seems like a prudent thing for
a (deep pockets) company to do.

Now, personally, I have an air compressor and a 1/2" impact wrench at home
and my compressor is usually at about 95#. ( I know that doesn't translate
to torque lbs.) When I rotate my tires I usually just go around my pattern
3 or 4 times once all the slack has been taken up. Seems to work ok.
I've never lubed the lug nuts. That said, the first time I rotated the
alloy wheels on my new Chevy truck I thought I was going to have to go to
the dealer to get the nuts broke loose. Dang, were they ever tight!
Must have used one of those big old manly-man impact wrenches to put them on
at the factory! Seemed like over-kill.

None of the above is intended to flame or put down anyone using more precise
techniques. I admire precision. It's just that some times common sense
can be just as effective and a whole lot less trouble.

Ralph

Earle Horton wrote:

You haven't had my ex-wife's spaghetti.

tw



__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Alloy metals as used in wheels are soft, deform easily, and over time can
develop a "death grip" on steel fasteners. Just because you had to "go to
the dealer to get the nuts broke loose" that does not mean that they were
tightened with "one of those big old manly-man impact wrenches". You do not
want to exceed the elastic limit of the metal in the wheel when you tighten
the nuts. That is why you would use a torque wrench.

It used to be "common knowledge" that tomatoes were deadly poison.

Earle

"Pumper Hinkle" <pumperhinkle (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote


*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
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I recall reading that the pilgrims called tomatos ( a New World plant)
"poisonous red love apples". I've often wondered about the brave soul who
took the first bite out of one. Someone who "really" believe their
theory? Or an attempted suicide that failed? Whatever. We now have
tomato sauce and ketchup.

But with regards to lug nuts.

As I understand, overtightening can cause bad things to happen. Like
metal fatigue, breakage, etc. (I did get my lug nuts off by myself but it
sure put some strain on the old impact wrench! Talk about "death grip")

Undertightening, on the other hand, can also lead to bad things happening.
Like nuts backing off, wheels coming off, and other related problems.

I agree that the optimum lies somewhere between these extreems. Given
that most torque wrenches, outside of controlled environments (like NASA,
and NASCAR teams, I suppose), will have an unknown error factor, and that
most home mechanics will probably never have their torque wrenches
recalibrated (some don't know to store their wrenches on "zero"), the best
we can hope for is a reasonable attempt at some sort of consistancy. And
some common knowledge has stood the test of time. Checking lug nuts
occasionally, for example.

I seem to recall, also, that things like power steering, power brakes, and
automatic transmissions were considered far too weak and failure-prone to
ever be taken seriously by the commercial vehicle market. Ah, the march
of technology. I love it but it's not my religeon. Common sense?
I've worked with men who, honestly, didn't seem to understand which end of
the screwdriver to hold on to!

Now that you've got me thinking about it, I think that I'll go out in a few
mins and check the torque on my lug nuts, just to see what they're actually
at! Maybe I'll even go get my torque wrench recalibrated!

Ralph

Italy had no tomatoes????

tw
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________


Pumper Hinkle wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato

I had some of my information on tomatos incorrect. Don't know where I got
my info but it was a long time ago.

The above link will tell all that anyone might want to know about tomatos
but begs the question: which came first, the tomato or the pizza? ;-)

Ralph

Here is a link to a site that explains the difference in torque for
lubed/unlubed pretty well. Believe the info or not but it tries to explain
the difference pretty well. Even has a calculator for different size
fasteners.

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...rque/index.asp

Les
'01 TJ

FWIW:
This is what the WJ manual (section 22 Page 9) says about the topic.

"To install the wheel, first position it properly on
the mounting surface. All wheel nuts should then be

tightened just snug. Gradually tighten them in

sequence to the proper torque specification (Fig. 5).

Never use oil or grease on studs or nuts."


"Les" <wiedrick (AT) twcny (DOT) rr.com> wrote

And of course, seal them away from the weather by replacing the
protective cover.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd (AT) aol (DOT) com http://www.billhughes.com/

billy ray wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:25:29 GMT, the following appeared in
rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by Clay
<clay (AT) mation (DOT) com>:

You might want to consider that rust formed by corrosion of
bare steel or iron might have properties a *wee* bit
different from those of a protective coating containing
oxides.
--

Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless